Episode #05: All Things Cesarean Section with Pelvic Floor Physiotherapist Jaclyn Seebach
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In this episode, Dayna and Rhonda welcome their first guest, Jaclyn Seebach!
Jaclyn Seebach is a Pelvic and Orthopaedic Physiotherapist in London and St. Mary’s, Ontario. She also teaches a course educating Health Professionals about Cesarean Sections through Pelvic Health Solutions. On top of all of that she is a mom of 4!
Jaclyn shares with us her story of having 4 Cesarean births, and how these experiences led to her developing a passion for helping other moms prepare for and recover from Cesarean births.
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Pelvic Health and Fitness Podcast Episode #05 - All Things Cesarean Section with Pelvic Floor Physiotherapist Jaclyn Seebach
We're excited to have you join us for this episode of Pelvic Health and Fitness. I'm Dayna Morellato, Mom, Orthopedic and Pelvic Health Physiotherapist. And I'm Rhonda Chamberlain, Mom, Orthopedic Physiotherapist and Pre Postnatal Fitness Coach. On this show, we have open and honest conversations about all phases of motherhood, including fertility, pregnancy, birth, postpartum, menopause, and everything in between.
We also provide helpful education and information on fitness. The pelvic floor and many aspects of women's health, including physical, mental, and emotional wellness. Please remember as you listen to this podcast that this is not meant to treat or diagnose any medical conditions. Please contact your medical provider if you have specific questions or concerns.
Thanks so much for joining us. Grab a cup of coffee. Or wine. And enjoy!
Okay. Welcome everybody to episode five of the pelvic health and fitness podcast. And today we have Jaclyn Seebach joining us. Welcome Jaclyn.
Jaclyn is a pelvic and orthopedic physiotherapist in London, Ontario and St.Mary's Ontario. And she also teaches a course educating health professionals about cesarean sections through public health solutions. And on top of all of that, you are a mom of four. So we're so excited to chat with you today and pick your brain about all things cesarean sections, but why don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey to becoming a pelvic floor physio and how maybe your births have led you down this road of really having a passion for cesarean births.
Yeah, so yeah, I am a mom of four and all four of my kids were born by cesarean, which I was not expecting or planning on. Um, yeah, and obviously the first one was an emergency C section and then the rest were just kind of ended up being scheduled C sections and, um, yeah, I just, I guess I just found the recovery from that, as I'm sure like anybody that goes through birth the first time, whether it's vaginal or C section, it's, you kind of, um, you realize how hard it is both physically and mentally, um, and so I just remember being, um, completely shocked at how lost I felt with my recovery afterwards.
And, um, like I spent a lot of time digging around trying to find resources and, um, you know, places I could go for good legit info on, you know, how I could recover well after having a major abdominal surgery while trying to care for a newborn at the same time. So, um, I, I think that kind of sparked a lot of my passion and, um, Yeah, and just chatting with a bunch of other moms and, you know, friends and mom groups and realizing how prevalent a lot of just pelvic health issues in general were.
Um, I was kind of blown away and I knew that people could get treatment for it. And I said, you know, how come it's, you know, it's so hard to find. Um, in our area anyway, there weren't many practitioners at the time that were doing pelvic health. Um, and so it wasn't an area I was expecting to end up in, but I, you know, decided to, to take the training for it and yeah, I've really been enjoying it since so I find it so interesting that as a physiotherapist, even you felt completely lost and just like, where do I even start with this recovery? And I know that's a, uh, report that I hear from a lot of clients.
And especially with cesarean births, but they often feel that way with vaginal deliveries too and just they had no idea the recovery that's involved, right?
Yeah, for sure. And it just, I found it extra hard because as a, as a physio, I mean, we're really trained to deal with surgical recoveries and we have all these, you know, protocols and very specific pathways that we follow for, you know, if you have an ACL repaired or if you have any replacement.
And so it really just. Didn't fit my brain to say like, how come we, we do this surgery and then we just send people home with a baby and say, okay, we'll see you at six weeks. And, um, so yeah, I feel like it's a, it's a, an area that physios especially, um, really have a lot to offer and to, to kind of step up and fill that gap.
Um, cause yeah, it was, it was completely mind blowing. Cause I, I didn't, I needed a kinesiology degree before physiotherapy. So I essentially studied the human body for like, as most physios do for a good portion of my life and I was still totally lost. It was just, yeah, it was. It's kind of upsetting.
Yeah, I think I relate to that too.
Again, just that feeling of being lost and just realizing that there's not enough information. And you know, all three of us are trying to change that and many others are as well. But I think it's still slow, right? I think it still is going to take time. Um, so after your first cesarean birth, did you, um, approach the other ones with a different mindset?
Did you have Did you feel more prepared or how did that go?
Um, yes and no. Like it definitely helped just kind of knowing the process and what I was getting into because that obviously, and like most people that have a cesarean birth, like you don't really plan on ending up that route. And so for me, It was just, it felt like a really rushed decision.
And then like, you're not prepared. Cause I didn't even, you know, educate myself on, you know, what a C section was or how to recover. So I definitely had that piece, um, kind of down for the next ones, but it was, I did find each of them was completely different, like even just the recovery. The difference of having labored first for, you know, 18 or 20 hours and then having a surgery compared to walking into the hospital and, and having the surgery, they were all kind of completely different.
So there was still a lot of, uh, variation, um, that was somewhat new with each time, but, um, yeah, just having that kind of general knowledge on what to expect took a lot of the stress out of it for me, right. Instead of it being this split second decision or not split second, but it seemed like a really quick decision.
Like, Oh, we got to have a C section. Okay. Um, so yeah, that was, it was helpful, but it took a lot of the, the distress out of it. And I think the research actually shows that, that women kind of know and are educated on what a C section is, kind of what they're getting into, uh, the risks and benefits, ways that they can, starting points for recovery.
Uh, they tend to, to not feel as, um, as stressed about it afterwards, which is great. Yeah.
So, so interesting. And I'm curious to know your take on this, Jaclyn. I, you know, we teach, we see women all the time for birth prep, right? We chat all about labour positions and very much geared towards vaginal deliveries in general, but I often wonder, and I have started to do this, and I'm curious your take on it, on starting to just normalize that C section and cesarean sections can be just birth, right?
And trying to plant that seed for people so that it's some isn't as much of a shock.
So what's your take on that? Yeah, I think I agree 100% with you, Dayna. Like, I think it's something that we should be including in our conversations as practitioners. Um, but yeah, even amongst like, if you have a group of friends, like just talking about it a bit more, and it's, it's a bit tricky to, to navigate, right?
Because, um, a lot of people are nervous and they don't want to think about that. Like a lot of people just don't even want to think about the birth process at all, right? Um, but especially something like a surgery, um, and I know for me, like I, I was previously super fit, and I was like, you know what, I, you know, I'm, I won't end up there, I, you know, I know what I'm doing, and I'll get through, and then when you're, you kind of land in that situation, it's all very overwhelming, so I think just, um, yeah, laying that groundwork ahead of time can be really, really helpful. We know that one in Canada or North America, at least almost one in three women will end up having a c section too. So, um, so yeah, having those conversations ahead of time, I think are really, really important so that you just, you don't get caught off guard and, and it helps you make decisions in the moment too, right?
Instead of it just being seemingly sprung upon you and you're like, Oh, I haven't looked into this. I don't know the pros and the cons and the rest. and what I'm okay with and what I'm not. So hashing that out ahead of time. Um, and I think as practitioners that can be really helpful just to kind of plant that seed in a, in a way that's not, um, you know, scary or, uh, invasive for people, but, you know, just saying, Hey, like, we know that this could be an option for you, even if you're planning to have a vaginal birth.
Um, so, you know, here's some info or here's some resources that you can, um, dive into if you, if you want to. Um, and I think also just having those conversations with a partner ahead of time. So whether that's a spouse or, um, you know, boyfriend or, um, other birth partner, it's. I think it's really important to know what you as a, as a couple potentially are comfortable with in terms of decision making.
Um, you know, and hashing out some different scenarios. Like if it, and nobody likes to think about these things, obviously. So, you know, make sure it's a conversation you're comfortable to have. You know, if the situation looks like this, or the scenario looks like this, are we okay with going ahead with a cesarean section?
Or, uh, if the situation looks like this, are we maybe not okay with going that and asking for other options, right? So just making sure you're kind of on the same page that way, I think can really take a lot of the stress out of it as well. I love that.
I would, I'm curious to hear your take on how did you feel supported throughout your births?
Because I, you know, moms that I speak with, sometimes it's mixed, right? Some moms go into a cesarean section fully informed and feel like they're told all the parts of what's going to happen and some don't at all. So what was your sort of experience?
I love this question. It's such a loaded question. Yeah, I think on a lot of ways.
I would say like 100% I did feel Uh supported in my birth experiences and you know I had great support at home and my family was was very good and my practitioners were actually really awesome They were like super approachable super caring um, but I think and this I think I realized this more after the fact mulling over it and I definitely didn't feel supported In the things that I didn't know to be supported or to ask about for support, which is, you know, completely impossible to know at the moment.
But I know, I think like having gone through it four times, I think I definitely would have asked for support in different ways. Had I known what. Things were going to end up being important for me. And I think this is the same for regardless of whether you've had a cesarean birth, right. It's, there's a lot of kind of carry over in both modes of delivery, but you know, just especially giving myself permission to heal.
Right. And I think, um, well, both of you will be able to relate to this, you know, there's, there's a lot of layers to birth recovery and, and I came at it from, um, have a very. heavily ingrained like athlete brain, right? Where you're essentially you're trained to kind of push through the pain and, you know, to some degree ignore your body.
And so that for me, that definitely carried over in my cesarean recovery because you're in pain and you're. You know, you know, you should like in your brain, you know, you should recover, but it's just so ingrained to just like, I got to push through it, you know, the baby needs something I got to run up the stairs five times and instead of asking someone to get it for me.
Right. So there's, there's definitely that layer. There's definitely the layer that we all know about, you know, just the societal pressure to bounce back. And, um, you know, so I think I didn't really feel supported in those ways. All the pressure. And that was partly the pressure I put on myself, but just.
You know, from a general, more societal view, definitely, um, is an area I think that we, we need to support people better in, but, um, yeah, that was just my experience. I know everyone's different. Yeah. We
love, we love that you've mentioned the athlete brain. We've already talked a lot about that and societal pressure versus just internal pressure to bounce back, which you didn't, I don't know if you saw me stick my tongue out at that.
I just, I didn't, I was focused. That's, uh, yeah, that just. It makes me cringe, right, this idea that we have to bounce back from this massive physical feat. And I always really chat with my Caesarean moms afterwards about, you're a rock star, you birthed a human, right? Like, it's birth. Because it breaks my heart.
When I have clients come in and they get emotional talking about cesareans a lot, because they, they had planned and they had prepped for this vaginal delivery and then they get into the hospital and sometimes things don't go as planned. I usually say birth has its own plan and They feel like their bodies failed them and and these things and I, you know, I do a lot of chatting and we all do and trying to encourage women to just like appreciate what your body did.It gave birth and now let's support it as it heals.
Yeah, I would love to hear because you both have sort of used the the language of cesarean birth versus c section. I'd love to hear why that is and why that's important.
Did you want to go first, Dayna? You can have the floor one. I don't want to do all the talking.
Yeah, I think this is something I kind of adopted after... Um, you know, having gone through my birth experiences and it's, it's kind of a subtle thing, but I think it's a really important thing again, largely kind of related to your comment, Dayna, about just, you know, how there's a lot of emotion surrounding cesarean birth and I like my backgrounds in sports injury.
So I treated and rehabbed a lot of. post surgical conditions and like nothing compares emotionally to a cesarean birth recovery. And so I think it's really important to as practitioners and just as you know, if you're chatting with friends, um, or, or loved ones that have, you know, experienced that mode of birth, it's really important to kind of, um, recognize that there may be a lot of emotion tied to that.
And particularly, like you said, Dayna, the Just those feelings of, you know, my body's let me down, or I, you know, I couldn't even birth my baby vaginally, right, or couldn't have a quote natural birth and all of these things, which isn't true. We know that we, we layer that stuff on for ourselves. And so I think it helps in the conversations to You know, especially tie in that birth phrase.
And there's lots of other ways, um, you know, you can address that. You know, some people prefer a terminology like abdominal birth or surgical birth or surgically assisted birth or a C birth versus a V birth. I heard that one. Nine. And then had given me that one on Instagram. I thought that was really great.
I like that. It was now. Yeah. C birth and a V birth. Um, but just to kind of, yeah, address and reinforce for, for people that, you know, yeah, like you said, Dayna, like it is birth. And in my mind, it's, um, you know, it's a really strong and powerful statement of, of parenthood, right? If you're willing to, you know, set aside your plans for what you envisioned for a birth and say, yeah, you know what I realized.
In the moment, this is maybe the best medical decision to keep me and baby safe. And so I'm willing to set aside my, you know, theoretical plan to do what I need to do. And I think that's really powerful and important needs to be, yeah, acknowledged and honored. So good job. Yeah.
Shivers. That was lovely. I love it.
Yeah, that was really, that was nice. Give me shivers when you said that. Okay. Cool. So my question for you is what are some of, so if someone comes to you for birth prep, what changes for you when you're preparing someone for a cesarean birth versus a vaginal birth? Or, you know, what are your top tips for someone preparing for that cesarean
birth?
Yeah, that's a good question. I think I, I approach it largely the same, right? Um, and, and sometimes from the standpoint of, yeah, just kind of, there's a lot of similarities between birth, whether you've, you've gone vaginally or cesarean, but I think especially, um, in relation to, to cesarean, again, just kind of reinforcing the idea of like having the conversation.
So I'll encourage people to, you know, talk with their partner. Um, especially or their provider, you know, if there's things you're really worried about regarding cesarean birth, like there's like those are the people to ask and to chat about and say, you know, I'm really feeling nervous about this or anxious about this or fearful about this because those things can really can really impact the whole process.
So I think that would be number one. Um, and yeah, just whether it's a vaginal or cesarean, just encouraging people to yeah. you know, give themselves time to heal and that may look different, right? And there's, there's nothing to say that I have lots of friends who've had a caesarean birth and a vaginal birth and would choose c section every time, right?
There's lots of people that have had a vaginal birth that, you know, they've used lots of instrumentation and had crazy tears and all of these things. So it's not necessarily, As cut and dry as, you know, a cesarean birth is always more difficult to recovery and those types of things. So I think kind of laying that out there, but just no matter what that looks like, give yourself time to heal.
Make sure you ask for help, um, and setting up a space to do that, right? So making sure you have meals prepped. Um, you know, if you end up having a cesarean, making sure you set up your space at home, right? So you maybe put a bed on the main floor. With the bass in it right there. So you don't have to crawl up the stairs, you know, to, to get to bed and all of those types of things.
Um, so I try to encourage a lot of that kind of educational stuff, uh, just to plant the seeds, get people thinking ahead of time, um, and then we'll often talk about some more specific pain management strategies, um, specific to a cesarean recovery, so things like, um, like elastic ab wraps. So, uh, belly's ink again is one that I really like, but it could be essentially any elastic ab wrap that you can throw on.
You can put it on pretty much right after surgery, um, and it just gives some really nice support. There's some, some support in the research to say that it helps with function and pain levels. Um, and just, you know, your ability to get up and moving and, and walking around a little bit sooner. Um, so there's things like that.
We'll talk about some specific breastfeeding positions, um, that will kind of protect the healing incision. Thank you. Um, because that can be really painful after, after birth when you're trying to care for a little one, um, but also heal yourself. Uh, we'll talk about, um, bowel movements postpartum, which I usually do with everybody anyway, but those kind of hip tips and just really encouraging people to stay on top of their medications, too, because I know a lot of people, especially if you're choosing to breastfeed, that are really nervous about, you know, taking especially some of the heavier hitting pain medication.
But, you know, so I would encourage you to chat with your physician or your pharmacist about that. But there is, you know, good And Good support to say that it is the meds that they prescribe are safe for breastfeeding. Um, but if you're obviously concerned about that and chat with the right people on that, but yeah, staying on top of the pain meds can be really, really vital to your recovery and your healing and, you know, keeping you moving and, um, but not in a painful way.
So
I love that. I'd love to hear. So you, you touched on the athlete brain with your sort of return to exercise. personally. Um, did that, was that mostly with your first return to exercise or was that, did it improve with your recoveries with each
kid? That's a good question. And I would say, I would love to say that I learned my lesson the first time, but I guess,
and I would say it was, it was easier the first You know, time or two, even to kind of just blow through that. But it's when you get to the third or fourth one, it kind of catches up with you, right. And you're forced to, you know, face it head on. So I was doing like way more stuff than I should have after my first, I, I shouldn't probably say this out loud, but I was running, you know, for one of them, I was running at five weeks postpartum.
Cause I was. You know, that was my stress outlet. That was my mental release. And I needed that. And, uh, and I didn't, you know, think it through that, Hey, maybe there's other ways I can relieve stress. So physically, I definitely pushed myself too far, uh, largely because of my athlete brain, I think. Um, and that drive to get back and I would progressively get a little better with that, but I definitely, it's a, it's a tough one to hash out.
It's so ingrained, and that's just the way, it's just the way you do things, right? So, and it took me, I would say it definitely took me through all four of mine, and probably if I had a fifth, which I'm not going to, but probably if I had a fifth, I would still be struggling with that, um, which is why I think it's a really important conversations to have, uh, particularly with.
You know, athletes and active people to, you know, make sure they have some different, cause I never even crossed my mind. Like maybe I'm going to need a different outlet. It can be as simple as that. Just kind of thinking about that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's not to say you won't get back to that, but give yourself some time, man.
Right. Absolutely. You birthed the human
rockstar. I tell people the rockstar is multiple times a day. Oh yeah. Um, I think it's so important that you say that though, right? Rhonda and I have chatted about this as well. Like, just because we're physios doesn't mean we did it perfectly.
Oh, we definitely had our own struggles.
No. Things I would
absolutely change if I could go back, right? And, um, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a big challenge to your identity to have children, right? Your identity kind of gets flipped upside down. So to let go of something that's important like activity is challenging, no matter what your birth look like.
Yeah, for
sure.
Does
your return to exercise advice change if it's a cesarean mom versus a vaginal birth mom?
Um, yeah, I would say, I mean, and keep in mind, this is coming from the person who, like, I blew my Internal stitch literally the day before my, my, my six week follow up with the surgeon, I would not recommend that I would, I would definitely say like my approach and partially because of that, like, I think it's really important to like, definitely you have to, you have to follow the post op restrictions.
You just have to, and it doesn't matter. And I think this is where I fell off the rails, right? You kind of assume because I was previously athletic or fit or whatever you want to call it. You're somehow immune to going through the same healing process as everyone else, right? Yeah. So that is really hard.
It's, it's a, it's a tough shift to make, but yeah, making sure I would, I definitely enforce a lot more heavily after my cesarean birth, um, you know, patients to stay within those restrictions. However, um, I do feel very strongly that there's lots we can do before that six week follow up, not necessarily in terms of exercise and the way that everybody thinks about, but just in terms of movement.
And, um, you know, cause if we think about it in terms of other surgeries, if you have any replacement, we get that sucker moving right away, challenge it. So I think there's a lot of room for kind of movement and, uh, motion. And cause we know that stuff can help a lot with pain as well. And, you know, just limiting and helping with scar healing and all of that stuff.
So I tend to have, or I've kind of adopted just some, you know, very specific things that I'll kind of encourage people to do early on, um, to, yeah. You know, builds that, but, but within that kind of restriction. Yeah. I've seen
that.
Yeah. That makes
sense. What kinds of movements?
Um, so yeah, just getting, even just some, some gentle kind of stretching and, um, yeah, you know, just like really reinforce, you don't want to do anything that's going to strain or pull that scar tissue, but getting a little bit of, of load, if I can use that term on here.
Perfect. Um, through the, the healing tissue, I think can be really helpful for healing. So, um, and actually I think I got this one from originally from Jesse. Yeah, but just kind of doing like a half kneeling stretch, kind of like a hip flexor stretch with some reach up overhead. And I probably, for most people, um, you know, everybody's going to heal a little bit differently, but that may be conservatively something you could start at about three weeks post op.
But just to get a little bit of light stretch through there. Um, you know, eventually you can get it to some things like Cobra pose. If you, if you do yoga or like a mini Cobra, but just to kind of stretch a little bit through the abdominals. Um, and obviously do this under the guidance of, of a practitioner, if you're not sure, um, cause you don't want to be straining that tissue and overdoing it too much.
Um, but I, I really like, especially those two, just as kind of starting points for getting things moving. And healing it and just getting like reconnected with that area. Right. Cause you, I found after my sections, it's like, you're in like full out protective mode. Cause it literally, at least my experience, it literally feels like things are going to fall out the front knees or whatever.
So there's, there's this, you spend so long kind of protecting and guarding that. is really tough to switch into a, okay, now I can move and I can stretch and, and get this tissue moving. So yeah, so don't do anything you're not comfortable with. If things aren't healed, don't force it. But those are some. I'm starting ideas.
I like
that.
It reminded me to, I think, so Dayna and I, you and I talked about this, how sort of a myth is that if you've had a cesarean section that you don't necessarily have to rehab your pelvic floor to, right? So I actually had, I had a client, um, a couple of days ago. who had a c section, caesarean section, and she was surprised to be having pain with intercourse.
And she's like, I don't get it. I had a c section. What does that have to do with my pelvic floor? So we had a huge talk about that and got into that talk, like you were just saying, about that protective mechanism, right? So she, was just holding a lot of tension. She saw an internal therapist and just had a very hypertonic pelvic floor just from everything she went through.
It was also not her birth plan. So I think just again, just a lot of tension after going through a delivery that was not her plan, right? So we talked a lot about that. So do you want to touch on that from your,
thanks for bringing that up. Yeah, really good point. And I see that a lot, actually, because you have like the load of the added workload of just pregnancy and supporting baby up inside the pelvic floor has to work a little bit harder.
Right? So we see a lot of those issues. And yeah, definitely. I see a lot of hypertonic pelvic floors afterwards. And I think, yeah, you, you phrased it really well there, Rhonda, where it's just, it's kind of going to that fight or flight response to right from all levels, like birth plans different. Yeah. But it's like one of the few surgeries where you're awake for most people, you know, they just use kind of a local anesthetic Um or something like that So you're awake and you can't really see assuming you haven't had a gentle cesarean You can't see the procedure but you're awake and you're aware that you know, someone's doing something with a scalpel down low And it's not socially appropriate to jump off the bed and run naked and you can't sit up and punch and fight off the surgeon.
Cause you know, that's not a good idea. The only other option is to kind of freeze and hang out there. And, and so your body has to process that somehow. And often like you guys know, a lot of that can get, um, kind of translated and manifest in the pelvic floor in terms of tightness in the muscle and guarding and all of that stuff.
So, yeah, that's a really common one that we see.
And a lot of cesarean moms too, I've had some with leaking and they feel it's unfair, you know, I didn't have, and then we have that whole conversation of this myth that leaking can only happen with weak pelvic floors, right? Absolutely happen with that hypertonic pelvic floor as well.
So it's very common. Absolutely.
Or even just the side effect of the scar tissue, right? That's how you heal. You can have some scar tissue that, um, you know, impacts the bladder and that can throw things off a little bit as well. So, yeah, for sure. So
speaking of that scar, what are some of the tips or tricks or scar massage techniques that you like to utilize?
When can people start to mobilize that scar?
This is a good one. And you, like, you'll hear really different. ideas on this. Some people will say, like, definitely wait the six weeks. Um, and I, I don't know, my, my kind of approach that I've adopted is, and a lot of people will say, as soon as it's a scar, you can work on the scar.
So obviously, like, definitely make sure it's fully healed over, make sure there's no open spots, there's no oozing, you know, the majority of the scab has fallen off. But once that is complete, and obviously, you know, it's always best to check with your healthcare provider, But, um, often by the time it's kind of a fully healed scar, then you can, you should be okay to start on it.
Um, usually I start with some, what we call desensitization techniques, where you're just again kind of reconnecting with that area. Especially there might be a lot of emotional. stuff that goes on with that. And even to touch the scar feels, it just really freaks you out or makes you super emotional because it brings up that whole experience.
So kind of get reconnected and in kind of a comfortable controlled way that way can work really well. Um, and just using a variety of different. Textiles and, you know, cotton, wet cotton, dry cotton, um, you know, silicone, um, silk, wool, whatever you have laying around just to, to have, get it used to practicing, uh, different, you know, processing different textures and, and different amounts of pressure and things like that.
So that's probably a good starting point. If you're someone who can't touch their scar, and this happens a lot, it makes you really emotional. There are ways you can kind of build up to that. So you can just imagine. touching with those different textiles, and sometimes that is a more doable starting point.
Um, you can touch through a barrier, like, you know, keep your underwear on, do some of the touch over top of the underwear or pants, um, or through a towel, um, and there's just kind of that physical barrier that is a little less intimidating. Uh, and then After that, or in conjunction with that, you can also starting with some scar mobilization, which is essentially I tell people just, you want to make sure it wiggles in all directions, right?
So if you move the skin tissue, you know, you can do up and downs. I decide circles, diagonals. It's not rocket science, just get it moving. And I should actually do a video on that somewhere, but. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure you love it. You say
wiggle. I always just say wiggle it.
Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. It's not complicated.
You just want it to move. Oh, very technical term wiggle, but that's the scientific term. Yeah. And also, and once things kind of get more healed, you know, working into deeper layers too. I think that's some, that's one that gets often missed a lot, like even right down to the organs. Cause we know some scar tissue can heal, you know, kind of around the bladder area and uterus.
So getting in nice and deep, um, but obviously it has to be within your comfort level. So usually I tell people I keep it less than a three or four out of 10 pain, but I don't know if you guys have other recommendations on that, but that's usually what I tell people. It shouldn't be overly uncomfortable.
It probably will feel strange and a little bit uncomfortable, but I love that. So good. Um, did you find, so Dayna and I talk about sort of like the mental health piece in terms of, um, delivery and recovery, that kind of thing. Um, do you have talks with your clients about just processing, you know, when they did, when it wasn't their plan and then they did go for a cesarean section and sort of like referral to other practitioners to talk through that process?
What does that look like with your clients?
Yeah, that's, we have those conversations all the time. And mostly I think because I, like, I had relatively, like on paper, relatively good, medically speaking, good Caesarian sections. It took me a long time afterwards, and I think even upwards of a couple years afterwards, to realize that Like I was a little bit traumatized from that event, like just going through an emergency c section and we do know actually emergency c section does meet the criteria for, um, you know, potentially being something that can cause PTSD or post traumatic stress disorder.
So, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a big deal, um, potentially for some people. So yeah, we often have that conversation. Usually we work it in kind of around scar work. So I'll say, you know, before I do some scar work, I'll ask permission. to touch their scar because there's a lot of people that don't even know or they're surprised when someone touches it.
They're like, Oh my gosh, like that is too much. So we often kind of work it in there, um, or have that conversation there. And then, yeah, often I'll refer to, um, you know, a psychotherapist or, um, you know, counselor that, that specializes particularly in birth trauma, um, or posts. nail recovery. Um, because yeah, those are, they're really important pieces and they can impact the physical recovery too.
Right. Cause if you're processing so much and so thrown off emotionally that you can't touch your own scar or have a practitioner touch your scar, right. Then that, that, uh, certainly impacts. The work that can be done there. And so there's lots of layers. So yeah, that's usually how I approach it. And, um, you know, I'll let people know, you know, this isn't my wheelhouse, but I know that it's, it's a super important component to your recovery.
Um, so yeah, it's, it's something that needs to be addressed. And like a lot of people for a variety of reasons, you know, they don't want to necessarily see a professional. Um, which is fine, right? Yep. I'll often really encourage them to, like, at least talk with your partner about it or talk with, you know, if you don't have a partner, talk with a mom or a girlfriend that's also had a cesarean birth just to, you know, get it out in the open, you know, say, you know what, I still really am fearful when I think back to that or, you know, I have flashbacks to my birth or I have nightmares or whatever it is.
Um, you know, and this would go for vaginal birth as well, if you have a Um, so I think that's kind of, that's often a good starting point for people, is just to have those conversations with, with people they know and trust. And then if, if they feel like they need a little more support, then yeah, but for sure, you know, reach out to a, um, a healthcare provider that can fill in those pieces a little bit more.
Cause yeah, there's lots you can do to help process that. And the SCAR work too, I find is a really helpful piece. Yeah. Integrating that, right? Because you can work through that while you're doing some of those physical pieces and often, I guess that's the other piece I'll often say, you know, as you're working, you're doing your physio exercises for your, your scar mobilizations and you're getting some emotional stuff come up, then, you know, don't like just shut her down or say, Oh man, like I gotta.
Pause this, like, you know, see where that kind of takes you a little bit and, you know, work with, um, uh, you know, a psychotherapist to give you some pieces that you can kind of work through that with, because yeah, that, that physical piece and the emotional piece kind of tied together can give some really good results.
I love that. Yeah, so good. Yeah, really should be standard of care should be. I think so. For all births really check in.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, totally. That's a whole other chat. We'll, we'll, we'll get that ball rolling ladies.
I have to ask, kind of tying into one of our last questions here, but um, so the most common piece of advice.
That cesarean moms get when they leave the hospital is don't lift anything more than baby.
Yeah, You've given some great tips on things, you know, the elastic band and you know Gentle mobilizations and things like that already a lot more information than moms are gonna get in the hospital But what are the advice what advice do you give your moms who this is not their first baby?
And they've got others at home that they need to bend and lift and things. What's your advice there?
I'm going to be careful with this response. Follow your surgical guidelines. Right. But life. Yeah. Right. The first thing I would stress is, yeah, it's, it really is important to follow the, the surgeons, um, you know, post op restrictions and everybody's going to have slightly different ones.
You know, I, I had four and I think I had. You know, three different suggestions. You know, one was like, don't lift more than the weight of your baby. One was don't lift more than 20 pounds. One was don't lift more than 10 pounds. Um, so yeah, it might kind of depend on the specific procedure that they did or style of, of cesarean, um, incision and all of that stuff.
Um, it's, there's definitely the real life scenario of, yeah, when you have other kids at home, it's just, it's really easy. Or I should say really difficult to stick to those restrictions, right? Um, so I would, yeah, like I would definitely encourage you to do your best to follow that. And there's lots of neat ways you can kind of get around that to kind of stay within those restrictions.
Um, for example, I think I saw a really great video online. I shouldn't, I shouldn't break right down who does these awesome things, but there was a really great video online about, um, you know, how to, maybe this would be for a larger, larger toddler, but how to get. a larger toddler out of their crib. If you have just had a cesarean birth, you know, you have a newborn at home and, you know, say a two year old or three year old, they're way too heavy for you to lift.
And she had a really great idea of, you know, putting up a chair, um, and like a little stepstool in the crib that you could lift the, you know, the super tiny little plastic stepstool into the, the crib so that they can crawl out onto the chair and you're there to, you know, guide them so they don't fall.
But, um, but they can do that. That heavy lifting for you, right? So there's lots of different ways or I had great suggestion Uh, I think this was from my doctor Actually, you know if someone falls and scrapes their knee You can still love them and shower them with love but say hey, you know what mom's gonna sit down on the ground Can you come here to mom and cuddle me?
So you're not having to pick them up and certainly it doesn't like the real life realities. It doesn't work that way all the time um, but which is why I Personally, really strongly believe that we need to, you know, give people different tools earlier. Yeah. They kind of deal with this stuff and, and kind of, yeah, get around it as best they can.
Not as a, like, you know, bypassing, but, uh, you know, so their, their bodies are supported as best they can to deal with those real life scenarios. So, yeah. Exactly.
And, but even those suggestions are, that's exactly what I was after. Like those little suggestions can make a big difference for a mom coming home and they got an older child and they already have guilts. It doesn't matter what your birth looks like that you're not, you know, paying attention to the newborn and now they can't lift their toddler. But having those kinds of suggestions are so awesome and so important to tell moms ahead of time. Yeah. Right.
Yeah. It's for sure. And it's obviously it looks a little different now during COVID, but this is something I really wish I had done different with mine is, you know, make sure you like to send the older kids to grandma and grandmas and then you can make it a big special thing. You're going to have some sleepovers at grandma's and, um, you know, so that they, they don't feel slighted and it's kind of exciting, you know, but so that you have that physical break from them or, you know, having someone, um, Um, you know, depending on your relationships, having someone come and live with you so that they can help with the older children or, you know, have activities planned or whatever that looks like.
There's lots of ways around it. But yeah, it's, it is a lot. Yeah, it's hard. So we want to be mindful of your time, Jaclyn, you've given us such great tips. So where can people find you? Oh, good question. Probably easiest to find me on Instagram. Yeah, Jaclyn Sibach, PT. Um, or else, yeah, you can find me, um, online.
I have a website, Jaclynseebackpt.com, or you can find me through Rebirth Wellness Center in downtown London, um, as well. And yeah, those are probably the easiest. So yeah, I love getting questions and interaction on, on Instagram. So don't be afraid to reach out, um, if you need help kind of navigating resources and where to connect with people in your area.
Um, yeah. Are you working with clients, uh, in person, online, both? What does that look like?
Yeah, both, both in person and virtually. Yeah. Awesome. So the virtual appointments obviously would be restricted to anyone in Ontario, but, um, yeah, in person and if you live in the London or St. Mary's area. And yeah, you can find me at those locations.
I love it.
I highly encourage you to follow Jaclyn on Instagram, her TikToks are amazing. Oh yeah, I always say, you are the TikTok queen. Just pump them out. I'm like, how, like how? How do you do that? It's so amazing. The reality is I spend way too much time on that. I shouldn't, but. It's so fun though. It is so fun.
And it's such a really cool way to get information across in an entertaining way. Yeah,
I think you do a great job. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. It's been lovely chatting with you about all this and, um, I'll see you soon in person. Yeah. And we'll have to have you on again, Jaclyn, because I feel like there's probably still topics that we didn't cover that we'll have to cover in a future episode.
I would be game for that. Yeah. Thanks a lot for having me guys. That was great Jaclyn. Thank you.
