Episode #55: The difference between pelvic floor physiotherapy and personal training with Laura Jawad
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In this episode, Rhonda talks with pre and post-partum fitness coach, Laura Jawad, about the differences between pelvic floor physiotherapy and personal training - and how they fit together. They cover things like gaps in education for expectant parents, the importance of care teams, and more!
As a pregnancy and postpartum personal trainer and birth doula, Laura Jawad helps people feel strong and confident in their changing bodies.
Laura's journey navigating her own pregnancies and difficult postpartum recoveries opened her eyes to major gaps in care offered to birthing parents. She left her role as a PhD-trained scientist to become the coach and resource she needed during those vulnerable years.
Today, she does more than simply program workouts. She helps people recognize pregnancy and postpartum as pivotal opportunities to grow strong and thrive. As a coach and a content expert with over five years exclusively focused on pregnancy and postpartum, she's on a mission to de-stigmatize conversations around birthing bodies and pelvic health. Laura holds certifications as a Girls Gone Strong Certified Pregnancy and Postpartum Coach and as a Certified Pregnancy and Postpartum Athleticism Coach.
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LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN EPISODE
Girls Gone Strong Certification
Pregnancy and Postpartum Athleticism Certification
PODCAST LINKS & RESOURCES
Check out Rhonda’s FREE Resource Library
Pelvic Health and Fitness Podcast
Book with Dayna (Rebirth Wellness)
SHOW NOTES:
(1:06) - Rhonda introduces Laura Jawad!
(2:13) - Laura tells us how she got into the world of pre and postnatal coaching
(8:38) - What have the 5 years since Laura got certified looked like?
(13:06) - What are the major gaps that Laura sees in the care offered to birthing parents?
(17:49) - What are the differences between fitness coaches and pelvic floor physiotherapists?
(22:15) - On having a care team instead of a la carte
(29:00) - Laura talks about her business, who she works with, and her offers!
(30:30) - Where to find Laura online!
(31:05) - Last bit of advice from Laura and episode wrap up!
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Episode #55: The difference between pelvic floor physiotherapy and personal training with Laura Jawad
We're excited to have you join us for this episode of Pelvic Health and Fitness. I'm Dayna Morellato, Mom, Orthopedic and Pelvic Health Physiotherapist. And I'm Rhonda Chamberlain, Mom, Orthopedic Physiotherapist and Pre Postnatal Fitness Coach. On this show, we have open and honest conversations about all phases of motherhood, including fertility, pregnancy, birth, postpartum, menopause, and everything in between.
We also provide helpful education and information on fitness, the pelvic floor, and many aspects of women's health, including physical, mental, and emotional wellness. Please remember as you listen to this podcast that this is not meant to treat or diagnose any medical conditions. Please contact your medical provider if you have specific questions or concerns.
Thanks so much for joining us. Grab a cup of coffee. Or wine. And enjoy!
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Pelvic Health and Fitness Podcast. Rhonda here, and today I am honored to welcome pre and postpartum fitness coach, Laura Jawad. Welcome, Laura. Thank you so much, Rhonda. So happy to be here. Yeah. Before we get into it, I'll just do a little bio about you and then we'll get into the questions.
So as a pregnancy and postpartum personal trainer and birth doula. Laura helps people feel strong and confident in their changing bodies. Laura's journey and navigating her own pregnancies and difficult postpartum recoveries, open her eyes to major gaps in care offered to birthing parents. She left her role as a PhD trained scientist, which I'm excited to talk about that, to become the coach and resource she needed during those vulnerable years.
Today she does more than simply program workouts. She helps people recognize pregnancy and postpartum as a pivotal opportunity to grow strong and thrive. As a coach and a content expert with over five years exclusively focused on pregnancy and postpartum, she's on a mission to de stigmatize conversations around birthing bodies and pelvic health.
Laura holds certifications as Girls Gone Strong, certified pregnancy and postpartum coach, and a certified pregnancy and postpartum athleticism coach. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us, Laura. Thank you. Yeah. So your bio tells us a lot, but, and you touched a little bit on this, but could you tell us a little bit more about you, how you got into the world of pre and postnatal coaching?
Yeah, absolutely. So, um, So as you kind of ran through there, um, my, this is career number two for me. So I come to this with a background in research science. I have a PhD in oceanography and I worked in academia for almost two decades. So, um, so I was there for a pretty long time. Um, I had my daughter, my first child, first pregnancy in 2016, and that was just a super, um, transformative experience for me.
Um, eye opening experience for me. I was, I went into that pregnancy in the, in the best shape of my life, like the most athletic I've ever been. And. I, you know, I was determined to maintain that throughout my pregnancy and, you know, probably did some questionable stuff. But, you know, ultimately like I ran through like two thirds of my pregnancy and I went to my kettlebell classes and I like, I mean, I did like a 25K trail run.
I did some stuff that definitely I wouldn't necessarily recommend. Um, and it was fine. And then postpartum it wasn't fine. And so what I found is that after my pregnancy, You know, I had a prolapse running, didn't feel good. And I had to figure out how to get back to the sports that I wanted to do. And the resources that are available today.
were not available, right? Six years ago, right? There has just been an absolute revolution in the resources available to pre and postnatal women, um, people in the past several years. Um, and so when I was going through this, I was really paving my own path forward and doing that research on my own to try and heal myself.
And A, I loved what I was learning. Yep. And I just really felt like I needed to share that experience with more people. Yeah. And of course now I, I know it's not true. I almost feel like you can find like a pre and postnatal trainer on like every street corner. Um, but it's just the, the landscape has changed so much in the past couple of years.
Yeah, I would agree. And it's, it's incredible. But I think with that too, similar to any area of growth, there's going to be a broad spectrum of, providers, right? And I think, you know, you and I will get into that today is just making sure that people are informed that not all pre postnatal trainers are created equal, right?
And really trying to find someone that resonates with what you're looking for and what your goals are. So, yeah, I think it's so neat because I, you know, several years ago, I was lucky enough to find someone in the Seattle area who did specialize in pregnancy and postpartum. Um, And I think at that time too, it was like, if you found one person, you were pretty darn lucky.
Yeah. You're pretty lucky. And now you don't have to settle for the first person you find. Yep. There's so many of us. Um, and I think there's a lot of us who are good at what we're doing, but it means that, you know, if you have like a particular sport or a particular hobby that you're trying to get back to, you really can find folks that are niched down and tailored.
your, your goal, which I think is so cool. I think it's so cool too. Yeah. So was it then after, you know, going through prolapse symptoms, trying to navigate, getting back to fitness yourself, is that when you decided, okay, I want to become a coach. Is that kind of what led you down that path of learning more?
Um, I don't know if there was ever like a single moment. Yeah. Um, there was definitely. You know, hopefully like my old bosses, like never hear this, right. But there was a moment where he goes, I would like go to work and spend more time, like, you know, Googling and like learning about this stuff than like what I was supposed to be doing.
And I was like, okay, I think I'm, I think I'm done. Right. Yeah. And I think that was a big piece of it. And, you know, I just, I, when I was a kid, like I never had. Like that one dream of growing up to become a certain thing. I never had like very clear career goal. And it was kind of neat when I found this, because I finally found a thing that like, I wanted to do not something that I had just sort of landed in.
Right. It was like, it was an area I actively wanted to pursue. And so that was, that was really fun. So it was not necessarily like one moment, but. Something that happened over a short period of time after I had my first baby. That's so cool. And so did you, was that a pretty quick transition away from your role as a researcher into this?
Did you have like an overlap time where you were doing a bit of both? There was a small overlap time, but honestly, so I did my, my personal training certification, my birth doula certification, while I was still working in academia. I may have started, Girls Gone Strong was my first pre and postnatal cert, and I think I might have started it while I was still Employed.
Um, but I didn't take a ton of clients before. I mean, it, it, it's hard to do both, right? Like they're both sciences is really like an all consuming passion driven job. And so is this, so it's really hard to do them both. So it was more like some foundations got laid. And then when I quit that job, I could really dive in.
That's when I started really building my business and my client base. Amazing. And so what year was that Laura? That was 20. 18. Okay. Awesome. And so 18, 19. So how many years is that? Like four years? That you've been doing this. Yeah. So I got my certifications in 20 or my personal training certification in 2017.
And then I think I got my girls gone strong in 2018. So what, yeah, I don't know. 2018, 19, 20, 21. Five years. Yeah. Five years. Amazing. And so I'd love to just hear a little bit about what that five years has looked like for you since starting. Did you start a business right off the bat? I did. Yeah, cool. And so what did that five years look like for you?
Um, uh. Oh my gosh. It's, it's looked like a lot of different things, right? Like I never set out to start a business. Like that's never been like, that was never a dream of mine. And my husband definitely prodded me into it a little bit because it is a dream of his. Right. And, um, when I first started it, it was kind of like, what did I get myself into?
And it's still a little bit like like, don't talk to me about like bookkeeping and, um, Like that stuff is not my forte. Um, but it's definitely been, it's definitely been like a little bit of a rollercoaster, you know, like starting out, I was doing more in person work and I was doing birth doula support and personal training.
Then once COVID hit, I stopped in person training. And I went fully online, kept supporting both clients. And I had a breast cancer diagnosis, um, like a year and a half ago. Um, and then I stopped taking birth dual clients. And so now I'm just training clients online. And it's also been a bit of a journey in terms of learning how to acquire clients.
Yeah. The traditional routes of like social media have never worked particularly well for me. So I feel like even five years later, like I'm still really learning about what, like how I want to run my business. Yeah. You know, it, you kind of think that at some point you just have it figured out and I definitely still feel like I'm experimenting with things and trying things out.
And, um, you know, stuff is still kind of changing all the time. Yeah, and interesting that you just kind of touched on there, um, you went through a cancer diagnosis, cancer treatment, I'm sure that threw a wrench into what you envisioned your business to look like as well. Yeah, first, yeah. I think you know that it kind of comes back to the message we learn as a pregnancy postpartum athleticism coach that We have to sort of be fluid in our identity as an athlete.
But I think that's true as a business owner, right? As we can't necessarily let ourselves get like pigeonholed into this is what I'm going to do forever because life happens, things change and yeah, we kind of have to just roll with it. Yeah. And you know, I think I was told like when I started my business and it takes about five years to build up a clientele and I've made all kinds of excuses for myself along the last five years, right?
Like first there was, um, I had, you know, a pregnancy and a postpartum that kind of like, you know, in quotes, if you're listening, like got in the way. And then there was COVID, which also like broke that runway and like got in the way. And then I had a cancer diagnosis and treatment and that like broke the runway and got in the way.
And at some point you just start to learn, well, maybe this is just. life. Yeah. Maybe this is just life. And we're always like, we're never going to have this like perfectly clear runway to build something or to like linearly progress without speed bumps. Um, you know, there's always stuff that gets in the way and that is just part of the And it's just part of the process.
And I think several years into this, I'm finally accepting that and embracing that. Yeah. And actually, like, I love working with parents because we're all going through it, right? And so folks tend to be more understanding. And willing to go with those little ups and downs for sure. And, you know, that 100 percent ties into, you know, fitness, right.
And, you know, helping parents recognize if we're waiting to be less busy, we're going to be waiting forever, right? So how can we, how can we fit exercise into the chaos of mom life? Yeah, yeah, that's so good. And so you touched on in your bio that you saw some significant gaps in the care for birthing people.
What were some of those gaps? Was it mostly fitness related that you saw or was there other gaps that you notice as well when you're going through your own pregnancy and postpartum experience? So I think there are several things. So one is that, you know, lack of referral to physical therapy, right. Just sending people back out with no support there.
Um, and also at the same time, like have it like the primary care providers tend to normalize like the incontinence and the pelvic pain. And, um, and then also not refer out to the people who can support those things. And I think that's a huge, I mean, we can call it a gap or we can call it a problem, but it's something that I do think that as trainers, coaches, we do help fill that gap a little bit.
Um, I think there is not enough. There are not enough checkpoints, right? Like the six week checkup is not enough. And so I think it's another gap that trainers are able to fill because we're like eyes on the ground, right? Like we have so many more touch points with our clients and of course we're not medical providers and we can't diagnose or treat things, but we can, we can see stuff and we can point stuff out and we can say, Hey, like this is something you want to address.
Here's the you might want to ask about that. Here's the name. Um, and similarly, you know, managing like a lot of the like misguided. outdated information that we get. So I think it's, I think those gaps just come in the form of like, it's a lot of misinformation, right? Like provider providers not knowing or not feeling it's important to make those referrals.
Like thinking some of these symptoms are still normal, still provide, like providing out of scope exercise advice. Like, you know, don't lift more than 10 pounds with no expiration date. So you run into people like three years later who are like, well, they were, they told me not to lift more than 10 pounds.
Yeah. You know, it's not meant to be forever. So, and that also comes down to like the lack of checkpoints, because if you saw the providers more often than that would get caught. So, yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yes. Lots of things. And do you have strategies in your world to kind of help with that? Do you have, do you have a network of people that you, you know, work with referral wise to try to change that?
Or what, what are you working on to kind of bridge that gap in your community? Well, I mean, so for part of it, it's just, you know, I think doing the job I do bridges some of that gap, right? I am seeing people more frequently have more frequent contact with my clients than they have with their medical providers.
Um, but I do have a really robust local network. And so even though I see most of my clients online. Most of my clients also come from the Seattle area. And so I think that's, you know, it's an advantage of working with a local trainer, even if you're working with someone online is I do know, um, a lot of the like allied perinatal health providers in the area.
And so I can help get people to where they need to go. Um, and I think that's, I think that's super valuable. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah, totally. I relate to that too, Laura. So I'm fully virtual as well, but most of my clientele happen to be local people as well. And I think, yeah, we can sort of be that connector person.
Um, whether it's, you know, midwives, obese, lack of awareness of what we do, or they're just, it's not in their scope to understand what we do. Lack of time, not sure. But like you said, we are with our clients for a longer time. So in that time, yeah, it's a lot easier for us to be like, Oh, you're dealing with this.
I know this person. So I think that's such a valuable thing that we can do for people in our community to just expand their network of people that can help them feel better. Yeah, that's amazing. So, uh, one thing you and I wanted to talk about today was the differences, similarities between what we do as pre postnatal fitness coaches and what pelvic floor physiotherapists provide.
So Dana and I kind of, I, I wear sort of two hats there. Dana is a pelvic floor physio, who is my co host. And we talk about this a lot on the podcast. Just, yeah, we, we have sort of similar approaches, but there are a lot of. Valuable differences that we have as well. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
So let's start with sort of like the differences between what you do as a pre postnatal fitness coach and what a pelvic floor physical therapist helps their clients with. Yeah. And I'm so excited to have this conversation with you specifically, because I know you do wear both hats. And so I feel like you're just, you have a super unique perspective on this as well.
Um,
did I get muted? Yeah. Sorry. We'll cut that part out. I sorry, Laura, I was trying to mute myself to cough and then I muted you by accident. So Aaron, Aaron, our podcast editor will, we'll snip this out for us. Sorry about that. Perfect. Um, okay. So I definitely see Physical therapy and personal training as highly, um, collaborative, what's the word I'm thinking of?
They work really well together. Yeah. Um, they should work in parallel. So I think a physical therapist, they are able to look in places that I can't look. They're able to diagnose. They're able to treat. They're able to treat pain. Um, they have tools that I don't have at my disposal. And so for anyone who is like very early in their journey or is experiencing any kind of you know, consideration, pain, pressure, peeing, um, anything that is unwanted.
I think that it's absolutely essential to have those providers on board. And similarly with folks who just want like an early and aggressive re entry to exercise, I always, always, always try and get them in with a PT because y'all are the only ones who can really evaluate like the pelvic floor's readiness for impact and exercise.
Um, that said, I think Personal trainers have a really important role kind of taking people from that place of rehab back to a place of performance and providing that progressive overload, providing, providing that like specific activity specific training. And so I think that there's a really nice continuity between the two services.
And I think they work really well when the two providers can collaborate. And. You know, work together, especially if a client is being seen by both providers at the same time, because I know it can be really tough. You know, when I have a client who's in PT, if I'm not in touch with the PT, then they have two sets of exercises that they have to do.
That's like super hard for them. And every once in a while stuff is different. They get different advice. Yeah. That's right. Like it should, like in an ideal world, all that advice is aligned and every once in a while it's not. So I think, you know, having, you know, The two, the two providers work together is also really beautiful and provides a really nice level of care for the patient.
So it's, it's a continuum. Um, and I don't think that there's like a hard line where one ends and one begins. I do think there's like an area of overlap in that we have an early return to exercise phase. And I think that's maybe where it gets a little bit confusing for folks, because I think there, there is a little bit of like a gray area where we overlap a little bit.
I agree. Yeah. And that's very similar to how I approach things too. And I've always been a physiotherapist that has focused on exercise and movement. That's just been my jam. almost since I started physio school. And, uh, yeah, it's been interesting navigating it because, you know, a lot of people keep questioning, you know, are you going to be an internal therapist?
Are you going to be in person at some point? Honestly, I don't think I want to be because I value that gap that we provide. Between that internal sort of like initial stage diagnosis, treatment, getting people, you know, feeling better rehabbed in that sense. But then there is a huge gap missing that we fill of getting, like you said, getting people back to performance, getting people back to just feeling confident to do the things that they want to do as a mom, not even an athlete per se.
Um, and yeah, like I personally work really well with a couple internal pelvic floor therapists locally that have admitted they don't have time in their schedule to take someone through exercise, you know, progressions, and they maybe don't have the knowledge or the enjoyment out of it as much as I would.
Right. They, they might know it, but they're like, yeah, I just don't, doesn't excite me. So I think that is an important piece of it too, that You know, we all have our different approaches. We all have our different things that excite us. And I think that's important too, right? Is recognizing like, what do you enjoy doing and how can you then help clients get to what they want to do using the things that you love the most?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, division of labor is. like a really important asset, right? Yeah. Piece of what makes society work. Um, and so acknowledging that and like sticking within one's wheelhouse, I think is really important. I think the challenge is, is educating, um, clients. And, you know, educating the people that need those services.
Um, one of the reasons I was interested in having a conversation is because I definitely have had some, you know, several people over the years where we go through kind of like the meet and greet process and we have all the conversations and then, you know, You know, they say, Oh, well, you know, it turns out my insurance will cover like this many physical therapy appointments.
So I think I'm just going to do physical therapy instead. And, you know, of course it's also a failure in education on my part, but I think there is also a really just big misunderstanding in terms of like what physical therapy is and where it'll get you to, um, you know, it's not that physical therapy. Is a replacement for personal training or exercise progression and personal trainers aren't medical providers.
Yes. They're not going to do that early, early phase stuff. Um, but physical therapy alone won't get you where you want to go and get where you want to go without it. So it's, I think it's tough sometimes for people to understand. They really do need two different, um, providers with two different expertise to support their goals.
Yes. I agree. Yes. Yeah. And you know, you, where are you located, Laura? Just outside of Seattle. Yeah. So I, I won't pretend to understand the U S insurance model. And ours isn't the best either. I think it has a little more flexibility for people in Canada, but, uh, that is a whole other part of the conversation.
That's huge. And, you know, I think it all comes down to You know, socialize women not wanting or not being socialized to invest in ourselves. Right. I think that's what it comes down to. So when it's choosing between, you know, this or this, well, I have insurance coverage for this. So I'm going to choose this and then I'm done.
Then I'm done investing in myself. Right. Cause I'm, I'm, I'm good. I'm fixed. Right. But I think that's what, you know, we're talking about here is that. If you know, your goals are to feel really good and really strong into old age, if that is what you want to do. Yeah. I think it's so important to have a physical therapist and a personal trainer on your team to keep you feeling really good.
Right. And I think, especially as moms, it's hard to find time and some of us need accountability to move our bodies. And that's not an admission of failure. That's just, you know, Part of being, you know, a human is we need accountability. And so learning to put money forward to invest in ourselves. I think that's such a skill that many of us are lacking in the world.
It took me a very, very long time to, um, pay a trainer a very long time. Um, and now I've reached a point I haven't had. A one on one trainer in like a year. And I'll also tell you, this is like the least exercise I've gotten in like the past decade. Um, and I'm starting with a new one on May 1st and I'm very excited because I need it.
I need the accountability. Uh, yeah. Yeah. We all need support, but it's definitely a matter of acknowledging that you're worth the expense. that it's an investment in your health and in your future. And of course, like, it brings up all kinds of conversations around privilege because I know some people truly do not have the resources for it.
Um, there's also like, you know, the explosion in, Pre and post needle stuff over the last five or six years also means there's also like tons of resources available at different price points, which is really nice, right? There's, there's traditional one on one personal training, but then there's also some really, really fabulous group programs and memberships that are like lower cost and still provide, um, support.
That's like, at least tailored, if not for you as an individual tailored for where you are in your childbearing journey. And so it's. Um, you know, still a really, really good option. Yeah. Yeah. I love that with, you know, the internet is just exploded in terms of accessibility. But again, I think it's then we, you know, educating our clients on what to watch for and maybe some red flags to watch out for.
Cause. You know, with, with the explosion comes a lot of, again, mixed messaging and a lot of, yeah, you know, fix your diastasis with these five exercises and you'll, it'll be good to go. Oh my gosh. Or the one, the one exercise to flatten your tummy. Oh, right. Yeah. And that, that's a whole other conversation that we could dive into another time.
Laura is just, yeah, with the body image, that type of thing that, uh, Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of women go into postpartum recovery, postpartum fitness training with, again, just usually no knowledge because there's not a lot out there. It's getting better, like we said, but, um, and then it's a lot of, yeah, you know, Black and white and a lot of catering to, you know, people's areas that they need to fix, which is a whole other problem, but there's so much more to it.
And that's what I love about, you know, the training that you and I have done. It's, we're looking at a whole person approach and yeah, just getting people feeling really good and really strong in their bodies. So that's, that's what we do. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So I'd love to hear more about. your business and, you know, the clients that you work with now, Laura, and if you want to touch on just the programs that you're offering right now, I'd love to hear more about that.
Yeah, so my business right now, I'm offering pregnancy and postpartum personal training, so I'm not offering birth support at this time. Um, but I do love working with people on both sides of child birth. I think that prenatal preparation is so essential for a really strong postpartum recovery and being able to work with folks prenatally is just like, I think it's magic.
I think it's so wonderful. Um, so I, so I do work with people on both sides of that, um, all virtual support at this point. And most of my services come in the form of one on one training. I do have a DIY program. So again, trying to offer services at a variety of Um, so I have a return to exercise program.
That's a 16 week program that I've tried to make as close to a one on one experience as I possibly could. So it is very thorough. Um, and then I'm offering, I'm taking, I have my first cohort of, um, running that program live right now. So I have a small group of moms, um, who I'm working through the program with, which is super fun.
That is awesome. So cool. And where's the best place to find you? So I, my digital home is my website. So laurajawad.com and that's where you can find about my programs. Um, I write a blog, an active blog. Um, and so I would love for everybody to go and check it out. And of course you can get on my email list, which I email weekly.
So you can also find me on Instagram, but I'm less active there. And that's at Laura Jawad fitness. Amazing. I'll put all of that in the show notes. So before we sign off, is there any other little tidbits of advice that you want to leave our listeners with? No, I think, um, the big thing I just really want folks to understand is that physical therapy is not a substitute for personal training and that personal trainers are not medical providers and should not be like diagnosing and treating any of their postpartum conditions, right?
It's two specialties that are complementary but different. Um, and both really supportive. Yes, that's beautiful. Yeah. And I think, you know, having, bringing that awareness to the podcast is so important because yeah, if you have the means, being able to access both in your community, I think is so, so valuable.
So such a great conversation, Laura. Thank you so much, Rhonda. It's been a pleasure to be here. Yeah. Thanks for being here.
Thanks for listening to today's podcast. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. If you liked what you heard, we would love if you could share this with a friend, leave us a review, or subscribe to anywhere that you listen to your podcasts. Thanks for being here.
