Episode #58: Taking the stress out of packing kids lunches with Rosanne Robinson
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In this episode, Rhonda chats with her friend and colleague, registered dietician, Rosanne Robinson. They talk about everything school lunches - from packing them, to working with “learning eaters”, and even navigating tricky food conversations stemming from problematic diet culture.
Rosanne Robinson is a mom of 2 and a registered dietitian who has specialized in pediatric and family nutrition since 2010. Through a non-diet, body inclusive, and neurodiversity affirming lens, she helps parents move from chaos to calm at mealtimes and raise happy, healthy and intuitive eaters. Rosanne is the co-owner of Blueprint Nutrition, a virtual private practice with a dual specialization in Child & Family nutrition & Sports Nutrition that serves clients across Canada.
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LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN EPISODE
Link to Rosanne’s School Lunches 4 Kids Masterclass - Use discount code RHONDA20 for 20% off! (valid from August 1st at 9 a.m. ET until August 10th at 10 p.m. ET)
This FREE bento box is available to the first 50 people who register!
Blog - Should we ask kids to eat their healthy food first?
PODCAST LINKS & RESOURCES
Check out Rhonda’s FREE Resource Library
Pelvic Health and Fitness Podcast
Book with Dayna (Rebirth Wellness)
SHOW NOTES:
(0:51) - Promo for the School Lunches 4 Kids Masterclass from Rosanne Robinson
(3:22) - Welcome and intro to our special guest: Rosanne Robinson!
(4:26) - Rosanne shares her background and what attracted her to becoming a dietician
(9:50) - What is an non-diet dietician? And why has Rosanne chosen this approach for her practice?
(13:48) - Rosanne shares what her masterclass, School Lunches 4 Kids, entails
(15:26) - Lunch gear - what are some essentials and special considerations?
(21:50) - FOOD! What are some tips for packing lunches for “learning eaters”, and how do we get enough variety and protein in food options?
(28:28) - Food and school - navigating tough food conversations with kids, and outdated lessons learned at school around food and diet culture
(40:07) - What are some tips if your child comes home from school with a full lunchbox?
(46:08) - Rosanne shares some final thoughts with us!
(47:38) - Where you can find Rosanne online!
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Episode #58: Taking the stress out of packing kids lunches with Rosanne Robinson
We're excited to have you join us for this episode of Pelvic Health and Fitness. I'm Dayna Morellato, Mom, Orthopedic and Pelvic Health Physiotherapist. And I'm Rhonda Chamberlain, Mom, Orthopedic Physiotherapist and Pre Postnatal Fitness Coach. On this show, we have open and honest conversations about all phases of motherhood, including fertility, pregnancy, birth, postpartum, menopause, and everything in between.
We also provide helpful education and information on fitness, the pelvic floor, and many aspects of women's health, including physical, mental, and emotional wellness. Please remember as you listen to this podcast that this is not meant to treat or diagnose any medical conditions. Please contact your medical provider if you have specific questions or concerns.
Thanks so much for joining us. Grab a cup of coffee. Or wine. And enjoy!
Hey podcast friends, Rhonda here. So in today's episode, I am interviewing my friend, Rosanne Robinson, and she has a really exciting course coming up, School Lunches for Kids Masterclass, which is an awesome course that's going to help you prepare and get ready to pack your kids lunches for the school year.
I don't know about you, but that was a struggle for me with Sadie the first couple years, so I personally took the course and I am honoured to be an affiliate of this course. So I am not lying when I tell you that this course is amazing, it's going to give you So much advice, so much guidance, so much encouragement to help you through the stress of packing your kiddos lunches for the fall.
So if you're listening to this episode live, this course actually goes live tomorrow, August 1st at 9am. So the total cost for the course is 79 Canadian, no tax. And because you're listening to this podcast, you can get a 20 percent off discount. Use the discount code RONDA20 when you check out and it's not case sensitive.
I will put all this info in the show notes as well. Awesome, really cool offer that Rosanna's providing as well is that the first 50 people who register will get a free bento box. So this is a go green five compartment small snack box. I'll put the link so you can check that out in the show notes as well.
Um, comes in green, pink, blue, and purple. Um, and you can select which one you want while supplies last. So if you are one of the first 50 to register, You will get a coupon code that you can bring to the physical Fenugreek store in Waterloo, or you can also use this code online. Um, the discount code will, the box will end up being 1 and there will be a shipping charge depending on where you live.
So if you can get to the Fenugreek store in Waterloo, that's your best bet. The course will remain open until the end of August, um, right up until Labor Day weekend. But this Rhonda 20 discount will only be available for a limited time from August 1st until August 10th. So if you're considering this course, hop on the link in the bio right now, sign up, you won't regret it.
It's an amazing course. Again, just helps you prepare for the stress of packing those kiddos lunches. All right, let's get into today's episode and hear more about this from Rosanne. Welcome everyone to another episode of the pelvic health and fitness podcast. Today, I am honored to welcome my friend and colleague Rosanne Robinson.
Rosanne is a mom of two and a registered dietitian who has specialized in pediatric and family nutrition since 2010. Through a non diet, body inclusive, and neurodiversity affirming lens, she helps parents move from chaos to calm at mealtimes and raise happy, healthy, and intuitive eaters. Rosanne is the co owner of Blueprint Nutrition.
A virtual private practice with a dual specialization in child and family nutrition and sports nutrition that serves clients across Canada. Thank you so much for joining us, Rosanne. Thanks for having me, Rhonda. I'm really excited to chat with you today. I can't wait to chat. And fun fact, Rosanne and I went to university together, played field hockey together.
Back in the day that was forever ago now. Yes. When I was in kinesiology and wanted to thought I wanted to be a physiotherapist. I think it's so cool. You know, how, how those things all work out. Amazing. Yeah. So on that note, um, I'd love to hear just a little bit more about your background, Rosanne, and just share with our listeners.
What got you into the world of being a dietitian? Yeah, well, I went to school for kinesiology with Rhonda at McMaster, um, and it was the nutrition course. We had one, I don't know if you took it Rhonda, it was one nutrition course that was offered third year, um, and previous to that, I had done a summer research, um, I had a summer research grant working at one of the labs, the kinesiology labs, and there was one of the researchers there in the kinesiology lab doing some, some work that was a little bit more nutrition oriented in terms of like the physiology, but the nutrition.
And I was like, Ooh, this is really interesting. And then I took that course and I was like, Oh, this is really interesting too. And it just really kind of confirmed that that was where my heart was leading me. And so kind of shifted gears, finished that degree and then went to do my nutrition degree at Guelph.
Um, and then yeah, from there applying to internship, I worked actually, my internship was at McMaster Children's hospital. Some of my rotations and I just kind of fell into pediatrics like it wasn't I didn't really know where I wanted to work actually in terms of the field. And I just happened to get, you know, really involved with some great preceptors there and I think, as you know, probably preceptors.
Depending on, you know, who your teachers are, your role models, your mentors. Um, I just had a really good crew there and I loved it. And I happened to land a maternity leave, um, that I was able to do, you know, fill for a year. And then after that one, it turned into a different maternity leave I covered.
Right. So I would just. That's kind of how a lot of us get into the field. It's predominantly, um, you know, female, uh, females in the field. And so, a lot of maternity leave coverage there, um, until I was able to get my own kind of regular line there at the hospital. Um, and worked in pediatric oncology, uh, for quite a while.
prior to that, um, pediatric neurology, where I did ketogenic diet for children with seizures, with epilepsy. Um, so really cool, you know, just really, really cool stuff that I got to navigate. Um, and then having my own kids, uh, you know, realize that maybe commuting to Hamilton from Waterloo wasn't the best long term plan in terms of life quality.
Uh, and so kind of. I would say just fell into private practice it I hadn't really sought after doing it. But in our field probably like in physiotherapy to Rhonda I'm assuming you have to practice a certain number of hours before you rewrite the exam or have to do kind of recertification work and so I was like you know what.
Uh, there are no pediatric hospitals in the Waterloo region, and so I was like, okay, if I really want to work in pediatrics, you know, I'll just kind of see a few clients on the side, and then just the taste of that, I think, got, got me going, I'm like, hey, this could actually, you know, work, and, um, ended up having a partnership with a colleague of mine that we kind of co own the business together in pediatrics and she does sport nutrition.
So it's kind of a combined niche that we have together, but yeah, it just kind of came together. I don't know. Yeah. And, and now obviously doing a lot less clinical work, um, more, you know, helping families around feeding frustrations. Uh, picky eating, uh, food relationship kind of work. And then we have a few other dietitians on our team who specialize in pediatrics and eating disorders, um, and GI conditions.
So it's a really nice kind of, um, team that we can, you know, help families from all different areas and, and families who are struggling with different things. So amazing. I love how you have all of those niches covered too. I think that's so wonderful. How long has blueprint nutrition existed now? So since, uh, September of 2016, so close to, I want to say, is this year six now?
I can't do math in my head.
So amazing. I love that. And I will say on the podcast that I've worked with a couple of, uh, Rosanne's colleagues before too. And yeah, everyone on your team is wonderful. Just such a great team of people. And so helpful. Great. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I do want to share too. I think I said this to you when you and I first chatted, when we first reconnected, when I said, you know, I know Rosanne, I want to reach out to her, see what she's up to that.
You restored my faith in dietitians. Do you remember I said that, do you remember me saying that, because I feel, and I'm sure you hear this. I, I feel like I've, you know, Worked with clients as a physiotherapist and I've always been in sort of like the fitness realm. So there's always, you know, a lot of diet culture stuff tied into, you know, when people come to see me, they want to lose weight, which we talk about that.
And then paired in there, you know, they've seen dietitians, maybe they're diabetic or they're dealing with issues. And a lot of the advice I heard shared from them through their dietitian is like very restrictive. Yeah. Very tied in diet culture language. And I just would always get kind of like a bitter taste about it.
Cause I'm like, okay, like that's fine. And not to, you know, discount what your dietitian saying, but like, is that realistic? So we kind of talk, it's, it's a tricky thing to kind of work through. So yeah, once I talked with you and I honestly didn't know there was any such thing as a non diet dietitian or like an anti diet approach, I had no idea that was even a thing until I met you.
And so yeah. Do you want to share with our listeners? Like what that even means? Yeah, absolutely. And I think This is where and again, I'm not sure Rhonda, how you would speak to this with your profession, but what you learn in school and then what goes on in the in the real world, so to speak, there's a bit of a disconnect.
And I think in nutrition and dietetics, there's a fairly massive, you know, disconnect between that and in school you're taught about. And it's really adult education based and it's very diabetic and, you know, heart health and some of those kind of, you know, conditions really, really based in those. And so, of course, you're kind of learning some of the old school kind of more traditional ways.
Um, I don't know what's happening now, actually, in terms of education. So I can't really, I shouldn't say, I don't, maybe things have changed. Um, but really my. My education was, was based in diet culture, I would say, in terms of like everything that I was taught. Like I remember doing food records and counting calories and like those were exercises, like part of our training.
Um, and then it wasn't until I got into the field and it's like in pediatrics, it's a little bit different because I wasn't ever navigating weight. I was never working in that area in terms of weight loss for kids or things like that, but just understanding like the realities of feeding children, right?
And how restrictive diet culture concepts are and what we bring into feeding our kids as a parent in our own like history around. You know, diet culture and diet culture really just go back to that the pursuit of thinness right at any cost, right? And, um, just how much like our society bases, you know, success on your appearance and the size of your body and what your food you're putting on your plate.
And yeah, just how much shame and guilt parents carry. around that, not only for themselves, but also when they're feeding their child, you know, I routinely hear like, you know, my child will only eat carbohydrates. And there's like, that's stated with a lot of shame, right. Or they really like, you know, carbohydrate food.
Um, and it, yeah, it's one of my biggest goals to like, let parents let go of that shame and guilt, um, and really understanding the truth. Like the brain needs carbohydrates. Yes, it's okay. And normal if your child has a diet that's like 50% or more carbohydrates, right? Like, um, but it's all these messages with all the diets, you know, ketogenic, Atkins, uh, whole 30, I don't know, whatever he is.
You know, it's they're, they're very much. So anti carbohydrate right now is kind of the theme. Um, and so that's just a lot for parents to bear and yeah, it's just totally against, you know, being stressed about nutrients is something I don't want parents to be stressed about. Obviously we want to be well educated.
We want our kids to eat well and grow well and, and develop. And so there's this fine balance between, you know, understanding around nutrition and all that kind of stuff and letting that. Um, and so I think it's really important for us to not steer totally into diet culture around tracking and counting and, and micromanaging.
Yeah. Oh, thank you so much for sharing that. Cause I think it can be scary, right? I feel like we've grown up in diet culture, right? So it's almost like, well, those are the rules. Like, what do I do if there is no rules, right? So. I love your approach, Rosanne, just so empathetic to parents that it is challenging, but I think, you know, the message I went through your course, which we'll start getting into now, it, you just reaffirm that parents are doing a great job and I feel like that.
Even, you know, I, I think I've learned a lot and I think I've unlearned a lot. And when I, when it comes to packing my own kids lunches, I, I feel pretty good about it. I know, you know, there's things that probably I can work on, but at the end of the day, like watching your course, I was like, okay, I think I'm doing all right.
So yes, let's get into your course. So what is the name of your Lunchbot course, Rosanne? Yes, it's school lunches for kids, uh, four is the number four, so school lunches for kids and essentially it's just trying to help parents. One of the things that I often navigate with parents is around school lunches, uh, they find that it's really, really challenging.
And so I thought, you know what, it'd be good to put everything into one little kind of. Yeah, one little mini course, right, that parents can kind of go through at their own pace, um, and just get some of those nuggets. And again, try to remove some of the shame and guilt they might be feeling around packing lunches and really equip them with like the tangibles around, you know, the gear, because it's, there's stuff you need to, you know, have to pack lunches, so all that lunchbox gear, that's a whole, Jungle out there in terms of what trendy stuff or, you know, the expensive stuff, like what you think you need, um, and then there's the food and all the issues around packing the food and what your child may or may not eat.
So all of that stuff. And then there's the sending the lunch to school. And then what happens at school? And so I found, you know what, let's navigate through those together. So parents can really feel confident, you know, going into the next school year. I love that. Yeah. So I will share. So my oldest Sadie, she's going into grade one.
So I've had two years of packing lunches. It's not my favorite. And I loved how you shared that in the course, Rosanne too. Like you do this for a living. You're like, I don't love it. And, uh, it's just, for me, it's monotonous. Right. And I think any task that we do as a mom, that's monotonous is just really draining.
But again, I loved how your courses laid out that just I love all the ideas you give too. So yeah, let's get into it. So how about let's start with lunch gear. So I know for me, you know, when I was starting to plan for packing lunches for Sadie. That is so overwhelming. And you see, you know, friends of mine have these like expensive bento boxes and, which looks so beautiful, but I'm like, I don't know if I want to spend 50, do I have to spend 50?
So me personally, I went to, um, the superstore there's and got like, they had their own version of bento box and it's been wonderful. It's been great. It's held up, but yeah, do you want to just touch on gear? What to look for, what is important to consider, and yeah, what's, what's out there on the market?
There's so many things. Well, there are so many things, and so I've broken down this kind of into 10 essentials. Um, essentials, non essentials, I don't know, depends on who you are, whether, you know, how you view that, but Um, it really comes down to understanding right off the bat, Rhonda, like what is your child going to eat at lunch because there are so many pretty containers and like all the stuff that's out there.
But if your child isn't going to eat a little snacky lunch with little bits of this and little bits of that, they just want a massive, you know, sub. Well, buying a bento box or buying all these other containers does not make sense for you. So I think I really challenged parents to understand, like, what is the, the main thing that your child is going to probably eat every day and then get gear to suit that.
Like, start with that first, um, and understand, because again, like I bought, um, two that are a yum box, like for my kiddos. And I would say I use those, like, Maybe once a week, if not once every other week, because I find that I'm just not sending, it's not the, the, the compartments that are dictated by the bento box aren't, don't really fit what I am typically sending and how the kids want it to eat it.
And so, um, you know, it's nice to have the option there and I actually use them sometimes for myself, but in addition, you know, to that, it's like kind of expensive if you're buying this. Stuff and it's not going to fit your food. So understand what food you're going to send and then buy the gear suited.
So, um, in terms of those essentials, bento boxes, nice to have, but like you said, there's a whole range of like, you know, what they, what you can put in them and the cost at containers, I would say are really. It's important, regardless if you have one box, it's nice to have separate containers. Snack, reusable snack bags can be really helpful for some, again, depending on what you're sending.
Uh, cold packs, definitely an essential, number four. So cold packs you want to have, you know, surrounding the food to help regulate the temperature, make sure it stays at a good temp for all day to, you know, Not have any food poisoning issues in terms of bacteria building up utensils is definitely an essential.
A lot of kids don't love to touch stuff with their hands, right? So depending again, what, depending what you're packing, having some utensils in there, a thermal food jar, or what we often call a thermos. Again, only if your child's going to have food that you want to send really Hot or cold, um, goes into a thermos and then a lunch bag, uh, definitely important to put all that stuff into and a water bottle.
And then the 10th one would be kind of these labels, muffin liners, you know, little things like that hand sanitizer that you may or may not want to send in. Um, but yeah, those are kind of the, the core group and it's a lot, um, but some. Stuff you know you might want to invest into and other things you can really cheap out on like I buy my utensils for the kids at the thrift store because if they lose them, it's 50 cents so versus like a 30 travel, you know, very right like so you can decide like where you invest in where you don't invest.
Yeah, my friend keeps, uh, remember menchies? You don't really see menchies anymore. He has so many like menchie spoons for that reason. They're so perfect. Oh, that's so great. And then in your course, I love how you, you have a chart with all of this stuff, which is. So helpful for people to just see all the different options.
Um, I know you have like affiliate links in there too, for like Amazon, well. ca a bunch of different places that people can purchase. So yeah, if you look into the course, everyone like that is super helpful. Well, and some of the feedback I've received from parents is just simply the research, like the extensive amount of time you spend researching this bento box and that bento box, and then who carries it?
Is it Amazon? Or is it Well? Or is it, you know, Fenago? Or where, like, where are you going? And What are the prices? And so I just wanted to put all of the kind of the main, the main products that you'll see out there kind of, um, and just put them on a chart and say, Hey, you know, are they BPA free? Are they leak proof?
Right? Like to have someone do the research for you. So you can just go and say like, okay, you know, I think this one might work best. I'm going to compare the links here. See who has it cheapest, you know, purchase this online, avoid having to drive to the store. Um, and so obviously there are a million products out there.
And so this gear guide, you know, certainly is only highlighting a few of some of the things that either I've heard, uh, have been really successful for other families or I've used myself. Um, but it's a starting place and it's kind of, I'll equate this Rhonda to me, uh, planning vacations. I love vacation, but planning a vacation, I get so stressed because there's 10 million hotels and 30, 000 Airbnbs and, you know, you can go here or there.
And I would always pay someone if I'm going on, you know, a more, you know, elaborate trip, a travel agent to be like, tell me where to stay, tell me what to do. This is not my area. And so it's essentially what I'm trying to do is give you that travel guide. Here's everything you need. I've done all the research, right?
So that, because you don't have time. We're parents, like who has time just to do all this, right? Oh, exactly. Hence why I have the business that I do, Rosanne, because people are like, I can find YouTube workouts online, but like, I don't know if it's right for me. So they pay me to put the workouts together, right?
So yeah. Yeah, moms, we need that, right? There's just a million and one decisions to make in a day. And if we can have something that takes away that decision fatigue, that's so wonderful. Yeah. Okay. Let's get into, I feel like this could be a whole hour episode on its own is the food. So I will share with you, I feel like the, my biggest struggles, and I think you mentioned in the course, this is common is I feel like I'm never giving enough variety.
Cause I know like Sadie is a learning eater, which I know instead of picky eater, you say learning eater. Um, So she likes to eat a lot of the same things, which is kind of nice because then it's like less thinking for me. But then sometimes I'm like, Oh, I don't know if that's okay. Um, and then also protein, which I think again, your course helps me feel so much better about that.
Because there's certain things that I send that I'm like, Oh yeah, there is protein in that thing that I sent. Right. So do you want to just touch on, I know, again, this could be a huge topic, but just some tips, some, some of the like kind of meat and potato tips that you have in the course. And you talk about with your clients about how, what do we pack?
What do we do? Yeah, absolutely. Let me just say before I got to get into that, there are so many barriers around sending lunches to school. Like, So many, um, not only from a parent perspective, like your time, your capacity, your budget, like all that stuff. Um, if you can pack in the morning or the night before, right, all of that stuff.
And then there's a bunch of barriers for your child. You know, are they a learning eater? Are they more adventurous? Um, do they have issues with temperature taste or texture? Food changes when it sits in a lunchbox for like, you know, six hours, right? So, um, and especially if you're sending that lunch early, if they go to before school care, right, that lunch is now sitting from 7 a.
m. or, you know, 7 30 or whatever till. So there are so many barriers, um, around food. So again, like everyone is doing their best. Take, take a deep breath. I know you guys out there listening are doing an amazing job already. Um, when it comes down to packing, yes. And of course I go out, you know, over some guidelines in terms of servings.
Um, and servings again are a little bit like. You know, I'm not telling you quantities, right? Like it's like, think about different food groups, right? Think about, are we, are we getting in some fruits and veggies and some, some grains and some protein foods, that kind of stuff. Um, and that's easier for parents of adventurous eaters, uh, because they have a huge variety to choose from.
Right. Um, when I talk about packing lunches for more selective eaters or learning eaters, um, again, at lunchtime. To me, it's all about adequacy, and this is a concept I love to cover with clients is understanding. Is this a time or a meal to work on sending adequate food? Or is this a meal where your goal is to push variety?
In my humble opinion, and there might be dietitians out there who disagree on me, disagree with me on this, but again, caveat here is that my client load, like who I normally work with, it's 90 percent or more of, you know, children who are more selective eaters or learning eaters. And so my opinion here is that you work on sending enough food.
Adequate food. And if that means that most of the lunch are, you know, includes, uh, you know, crackers or a muffin or a bagel, or I can't think of anything else, but you know, those types of foods that kids often like more, that child is going to be nourished and let me share quickly here. A story, um, that I was just recently talked with a client.
Um, and they told me that they were sending in kindergarten, their child, um, they were sending beautiful bento boxes, colors, and shapes and sizes and proteins and fruits and vegetables. And they said eventually, and they were coming home, you know, full, but she kept sending them. She's like, you know, I need to send.
variety, you know, I need to send. So she kept sending the same types of lunches that kept coming home full. And then eventually she got a note from the educator, um, in that class saying, we think your bento boxes are gorgeous. We would love to have them ourselves, but you're. Child is not eating, please just send something they'll eat.
Um, and that was kind of a big kind of aha moment for this, for this mom to be like, okay, you know, you know, how does diet culture play into this too, right? Like I need to send all of this stuff or the expectations we see on Instagram or Pinterest around all these, you know, bento boxes, even the bento boxes themselves, Rhonda, they say like dairy, fruits, vegetables.
They like outline for you, which I totally understand is in such good intent, like absolutely the intent is out of love and desire, you know, to help, you know, parents navigate, but that can be super triggering. And to be honest, it's tricky for me. It's very triggering to open up a box where it says what to put there.
And it's like, well, my kid won't eat any dairy foods at school. Uh, my kid's not eating any, you know, and now all of these, you know, are filled with things that shouldn't be filled with. Right. Um, and so, yeah, it's, it's this understanding that lunch, you can focus on adequacy. You can send enough food that your child is going to have calories and they still can have.
a good learning day, even if it's not perfectly, I'm using air quotes, balanced, right? Um, they can still learn and they will learn well if they have food. But if we send all this stuff that they don't like and they don't eat it, then it's kind of a lose lose situation and it can really trigger you as a parent when it comes home full, um, and you feel like all that food went to waste.
Yeah, that's so good. And I think, you know, as you touch on the beginning of this conversation, there's so many layers and there's so many factors, mindset shifts involved where, yeah, so are, are we packing to fail our child or are we packing the lunch to yeah. Prove a point that I'm a good mom. Right. And I think, I feel like I, again, I've done so much work and unlearning in my own life that I, it doesn't bother me.
Like if I'm sending bear paws and granola bar, like chocolate covered granola bars, like maybe a past me would have been like, Ooh, that's going to make me look like a bad quote, unquote, bad mom. Cause I'm sending too much quote unquote junk food. But because I've worked, yeah, I've worked through so much of diet culture and stuff in my own life.
It doesn't bother me. So if. someone did say something to me about that. I feel strong in how I am raising my children to talk about that. Right. So I think, but that's for people that maybe haven't worked through their own diet culture stuff, that would be so hard. So I know even My daughter came home the one day and a boy in her class.
So this is SK boy. Um, she said, she came home from school and she said, mommy, so and so in my class said, I need to stop eating so much chocolate, or I'm going to get fat. And so we like talked about that and my first, my first gut instinct was like, I, I feel sad for the, that boy, because that is the messages he's been taught at home.
And yeah, so we talked about that. I said, how did that make you feel? She said, it made me feel sad. And I said, did you still eat it? She said, yeah. And again, It's not like I'm sending a lunchbox full of chocolate bars, Rosanne. Like I'm sending now again, I'm watching your course. I'm like, I'm doing a really good job.
I know I am. Um, yeah, yeah. I do send like treats every day. I do. Right. Part of my packing formulas and something, you know, I'm using air quotes. Treats. I don't love that word, but like, it's food, food is food. Right. So you can send like a gummy or whatever, but yes, it's great when we model enjoyment of all foods.
And I think that's what we miss out on. Right. Yes. Yeah. So this kind of leads us to the next phase or the next topic that you discuss in your course, which is the school. Right. And so. Yeah, again, there can be a lot of, you know, stigma and a lot of shame attached to sending stuff because you're worried, what is the school going to say?
Or what are the teachers going to say? Are they going to tell me kids have to eat their healthy food first, which I have heard that from my school, from a kid's school. Um, again, we, I haven't addressed it with the school personally because I. I feel confident in my parenting skills to teach other lessons outside of that.
Um, but yeah, can you talk us through how to navigate that? Cause I know in your course you talk to Gwen, which is dietitian for teachers. She talks a lot about that going through like the course handbooks. And some of the silly things that are still just old school, right? Like we are chocolate free school.
I was like, what does that even mean? We are a chocolate. So, yes, it's still so rampant, right? Diet culture messaging in schools. How do we navigate that? Yeah, let me start off by talking about whose job it is to do different things, right? So there's, you as the parent have jobs, your child has jobs, and the school has jobs.
So your parent, your parental jobs are deciding what foods get sent, right? And that's going to be influenced by your budget, the time you have to prep, your nutrition values, diet culture, potentially, um, hopefully not, but food preferences. Allergies, sensory needs of your child, right? Like there's so much that goes into that, but you get to decide what foods are made available to your child to pack or for you to pack, right?
Then your child gets to decide how much they're going to eat and when, at what break they're going to eat which foods. Right. So, and that will be influenced by their hunger, their activity level, their emotions, their mood, sensory input, their medical conditions, their food preferences, right? There's so much that goes into that.
So, in, in there, and I think Gwen makes the point of this, um, in the course on the video when we have this conversation is like, if your child is hungry, they're not going to start with their carrot sticks. Like, they have 20 minutes. Five minutes, probably of that their hand washing, and then they might have to pack up before the bell.
So we're down to 10 minutes and they want to talk to their neighbors. So they're going to choose food. And this is biologically, they're going to choose food that is going to fill them quickly. And that's, you know, To eat instead of chomping on 16 carrots, right? So it's, you know, that there's a lot that goes into that.
Um, and then the school, their job is deciding the location of those meals and the timing. Okay. And that's going to be influenced obviously by the school. You know, if your child attends a public school or Catholic school, I know they do things differently or a private school, um, and accommodations potentially that have now been made since the pandemic, right?
So they get to decide kind of location and timing. Um, but this kind of crossover into You know, the school trying to take some of the child's jobs in terms of you should eat this food first, or you can't eat this food before that food. You know, it is all done with incredibly good intent, and I love, you know, we talk about this in the course, but it.
Always comes from love. Like I've never met a teacher who is trying to do things out of ill intent, right? That's never the case, but it's just maybe again, their own journey around food and like what they called true around food or what they've learned about food growing up, um, and their own struggles.
potentially around food. And then this preconceived notion that sugar leads to hyperactivity in children. Um, and so there's not, you know, I can't today share with you any kind of systematic, you know, review on yes, sugar leads to hyperactivity because that doesn't exist. Like we don't see. There's no, like, evidence based research there.
Um, might that be the case for some children? Sure, there's always, like, caveats. Just because, you know, research doesn't support it at a statistical, you know, significant level doesn't mean that there's a one off, you know, situations out there. Um, but typically, you know, when we see that association, it's because sugar is served at, like, a birthday party or You know, like certain events where kids are already excited and, you know, Christmas and Valentine's and all that kind of stuff, right?
So, um, it's not about that food. And again, it's totally fine for a child to start their lunch and eat with that, you know, food they might really be looking forward to. Um, versus, you know, something else. I often do that myself too. I'm excited for something, you know, I'll eat that food first and then I might end off with some other food.
Um, so yeah, it's, it's when that crossover happens, the crossover of like roles and responsibilities where things can get tricky. And then, you know, you have some kids Rhonda who are rule followers and so they'll be like, okay, yes, like I'm going to eat my. I'm going to eat my celery and carrots first, and then I'm going to eat, you know, my sandwich and, and kids who are really rural followers.
I mean, not all children, but that can end up being, it can lead into disordered thoughts around food and eating. It can lead into like. You know, okay, well, I got to do this first and that first and becoming really regimented and those seeds are planted quite early. Right. And so it's something we want to make sure we're, we're not, we're really mindful of, um, because rule followers then can be, you know, those kiddos who end up, um, having a, a hard, um, you know, go at it in terms of disordered eating and eating disorders.
Um, then there's the kids who, you know, don't really, well, a lot of kids don't understand. It's really black and white. It's like, oh, so. I'm not supposed to eat my bad food first. I'm supposed to eat my healthy food first, but I don't like my healthy food. And so, you know, then I'm going to now, you know, do whatever I can just to kind of have a bite or two.
So I get to the better, the better food. That actually further, um, separates, like it, it puts that kind of the, the chocolate covered granola bar as this like prized possession. And, and there's this greater fixation on that. And there's actually a further disinterest or dislike of say the fruits or vegetables, whatever the teacher has labeled as healthy.
And so it kind of further separates that, um, that chasm kind of. And then kids become more obsessive about the thing that. Again, the whole intent with that eat your healthy food first is like, you know, trying to kind of put foods on all the same playing field, but that's not what it does. It actually further like separates that, right?
And so I actually have a blog post I wrote on this exact topic. So I, you know, I can certainly, if you want to link that in the notes, but, um, go into all the details as to why it can be problematic. Um, but there's again, a lot of things there that teachers don't necessarily know. Right. Um, and, okay. How can they?
I mean, we're expecting teachers to know a lot, um, and you know, I have full 100 percent like admiration and praise for teachers. It is like, I don't know how they do their what they do. It's amazing. It's incredible. Um, you know, and again, all of this comes from a good place. But I think it's just, you know, with school boards, you know, not providing kind of up to date, information and training and education on this.
Um, you know, and there's a lot of stuff that's been going on with the pandemic and other things that teachers have had to become, you know, versed in and, and where that professional development, uh, where the, where those PD days go. Um, but it would be great to see like WRDSB, our local school board region here.
I don't know what region you're part of, but like to see them take kind of an active role or lead in saying, Hey, like nutrition. Information and research has changed. Like, how can we equip our educators, our lunchroom helpers, right? With, with this new information. Yeah, that's so helpful. And I think you just kind of touched on that too.
I think remembering that, and I don't think I really realized this until starting to talk to Sadie, that It's sometimes like other students that are monitoring them during their it's not even a lunch anymore recess. It's like their what is it nutrition time or whatever they call it. Nutrition time. So, and there's, you know, different ones throughout the day instead of like a lunch and two recesses.
So I think that was my, you know, mind blowing or eye opening to me that it's. It isn't the teachers often that are with them in the classroom with the food rules, right? Sometimes it's students and they're just following a guidebook or whatever, right? So that makes it hard too. Totally. And you know, they're, they're, uh, what's been popular, popularized in, in the past couple of years are these little lunchbox cards.
So they essentially say, and I, we outlined that in the course, but it's like, dear so and so, you know, please let my child choose to eat the food in the order that they want to eat it. Um, because of the rotating volunteers that come into the classroom, um, to kind of have something that. Is on their lunch that if they're, you know, told, Hey, like you can't eat your, you know, granola bar, you need to eat your celery first, um, that the child has something to kind of advocate for themselves.
I have a love hate relationship with these cards. Um, to me, they can be a little bit passive aggressive. If you kind of put that on your child's lunchbox, when you haven't chatted with the teacher. You know, and depending on, it's hard to interpret tone. Um, and so although the, you know, the tone is meant to be collaborative, I think it can come across as, you know, kind of back off, back offish and, and which, you know, is essentially the intent, but, um, we want to make sure we're cultivating positive relationships with our educators, right?
Um, and so I always think the starting place is, you know, Have a curious conversation. Like, you know, my, my child came home and said, you know, this is what's going on. Like, can you, you know, can you confirm for me, or can you let me know a little bit about what's being discussed again, approaching from curiosity instead of judgment goes a long, long way.
Um, and then if, you know, if you decide from that conversation that, Hey, you know, because there's so many rotating volunteers, it would be good to have a little note on the lunch then. Yeah, absolutely. Right. But I think just like. You know, sending the notes sometimes may not be the best way of collaborating, um, you know, right off the bat, or again, like jumping the gun and going right to administration or, you know, this, the principal or the trustee or, you know, it's always important to cultivate those positive relationships with the educators.
And again, half the time they're not, they're not the ones in the classroom. Um, and, and or may not understand how some of those rules have been impacting your child. Yeah. Yeah. So helpful. Um, the one thing that I found super interesting in your course too, was just some tips that you provide people. If your child does come home with a full lunchbox, so they haven't touched a single food.
I feel like that has happened. It doesn't happen as much anymore, but beginning of school. And I, I'm sure, you know, looking back, it's just, it's overwhelming for kids when they're starting school and they might not be that hungry, right. Or whatever it is, they're nervous. So what are some, can you touch on some tips and things you talk through with your clients and in the course, if your child comes home with food in their lunch?
Yeah, there's, I may, I may not get all of them, but there's a list, right? And some, some really simple kind of innocent ones, like, can your child open their containers? This is for those JKSK, you know, grade one, like little ones. Um, can they actually do that latch or turn that knob or like flip the things down?
Thermoses can be really challenging if you really. Crank those suckers on tight, which I have in the past and my kids come home, not even the teacher can open this, you know, um, so it's, yeah, it's just making sure like, you know, simple things like that. Can they open all of those containers? Some other stuff that we kind of run into is like, unfortunately, lunchbox bullying.
So is your child being, you know, are you sending food that has a distinct smell that maybe other children aren't using? students. So I find this with a lot of cultural foods. Um, and it's really sad, right? So kind of sitting down with your child and saying, Hey, like, you know, is someone saying anything about your lunch, trying to have that open conversation.
And again, following up with, you know, the educator to say, Hey, you know, uh, is there a way that we can even, you know, do some education for the entire class on like, You know, food diversity and, you know, making it a really like food neutral classroom and really open and welcoming to kids with all different types of foods.
Um, a lot of families that I work with have children that are on medications, uh, during the day. So that are stimulant medications that actually decrease the appetite, right? And so a child might be hungry for breakfast, but not really hungry all day during the school day. And especially if some of those foods aren't familiar foods or foods that, you know, if we're sending that pretty bento box.
Um, you know, things that they haven't necessarily learned to like so sending foods that actually are doable for them, right, that are in kind of small amounts. And speaking of amounts, again, if you have a child who's a learning eater, which I do, um, I used to send a full sandwich, like you need a full sandwich.
And that's just not. You know, if they have a smaller appetite, they're still learning to like certain foods, having a large amount of food can be so totally overwhelming. Um, so actually maybe cutting it back and sending smaller amounts, right? Um, because that sometimes kids will see a massive amount of food and be like, I can't.
It's just so overwhelming. I can't even begin to think about where to start. And so I might as well just not, and like, boom, close, you know, close the lunchbox. Um, so yeah, and there's a bunch of others, you know, stuff in terms of the classroom, the, the, you know, with the type of noise level that's going on in the classroom, um, if your child's like a chatter, right.
So there's lots of different things to consider. And some of those are things that you can navigate with your child at home. And some of those are things that. You know, require conversations with like your educator or the school. Yeah. And I just loved in that conversation to how, again, you just remind parents it's, it doesn't mean there's something bad about them as a mom or as a parent, right?
It's, there's no correlation between if your child finishes their lunch and you as a successful parent. So I love that too. So often, you know, and I can say this is with true authenticity. This was me like early on, you know, the lunchbox comes home, barely touched and it would, it'd be triggering. I can't lie.
Like, it's like, Oh, like, why aren't you eating your lunch? Um, and then I would get fairly like fresh, I would, I visibly show frustration, um, you know, kind of in those early days. And I was like, you know what, this. You know, this is not, this isn't helping anyone, um, and especially after school. And I could sense, like, my child's stress around, like, pulling out the lunch and, like, putting it on the counter.
And so now, you know, I really, you know, we've completely backed away from all that for a long time, but it's understanding the right time and place to engage with your child if that lunch is or isn't being eaten. Um, it may not be right after school and you open the containers and you're feeling, because it can be hard, like, let's be honest, right?
You know, to eat enough, especially if your child is maybe having a hard time gaining weight, right? Or there's some other kind of medical concerns. And so taking a deep breath, you know, and having a curious conversation in a really, you know, relaxed setting, say, you know, right before bed when it's just the two of you and no one else is listening.
And you can just, you know, ask an open ended question, right? There's. kind of a time and place and, you know, lambasting or crying or screaming, you know, with, why aren't you doing this? Right. We all are there. And again, there's lots of grace extended, you know, um, we can certainly, you know, kids are very resilient, but trying to think about how, how, and when we engage in those conversations and.
And then trying to follow up, you know, am I focusing too much on variety and need to shift back to adequacy? Yeah. So great. Oh, this is such a good course, Rosanne. And I said, again, I'll share again that I went through the course myself and it's wonderful. I've learned so much from you and in the intro to this episode, we'll are all the details.
So if you skip through that, rewind, listen to all the details. Sign up for the course, um, website and pricing and discount. So I will share. I am an affiliate for this course, which I'm so proud to be. Um, so there is a bit of a discount code that you can use as well. Um, so yeah, so excited for. You know, clients to get ahold of this course, Rosanne, just again, takes away that decision fatigue takes away a lot of that extra thought that moms are just exhausted to, to do.
So is there anything else about the course or just about advice that you talk to with parents that we didn't touch on that you want to leave us with? You know, I think we did a great job covering a lot of the bases, Rhonda, but again, just to confirm that it is hard. And if you're feeling overwhelmed, um, and you're struggling, it's, it's normal, and you're not alone.
Um, and for those of you who, you know, need a little bit more support, even beyond the course, you know, I'm happy to, happy to help. Um, you know, there's a lot of other pediatric dietitians across Canada who are also. you know, anti diet culture lens focused, um, and really, you know, in that place of trying to help remove the shame and guilt.
Um, and so if you're geographic, even in the U. S. too, right, so depending on where you're geographically based, um, you know, I'd be more than happy to help make sure you get the support that you need. And, you know, the course does, um, get into as much as we can, but obviously If there's, you know, deeper issues there around selective eating, um, you know, that certainly those need a little bit more time and energy to kind of like, you know, open up and see what's going on there.
But certainly there's help for some of those kind of deeper underlying concerns. If something like, you know, picky eating or, um, selective eating is something that your child's struggling with. So again, uh, just like know that you're not alone, you're doing an amazing job already. And, uh, hopefully I can just help make that a little bit easier.
Oh, great. And yeah, again, we'll share all the rewind to the intro with all the info to sign up for the course. But just in general, Rosanne, where can people find you? So I know you hang out on Instagram. And yeah, could you just let us know your handle and your website? Yeah, so our website is blueprintnutrition.
ca. Um, and so information there about our child and family practice that I lead is there, as well as our sport nutrition division. So the other kind of half of Blueprint Nutrition. Um, and then on Instagram, I'm at blueprintnutrition. ca. nutrition. kids. Um, so you can check that out, um, there. And just recently joined Thread, so I have a few, a few threads on there.
Same handle. Um, so you can check me out there. And I do have a Facebook group, not as active there, um, but Blueprint Nutrition RD, um, on Facebook. If you're looking, if that's the only, um, social media that you have. So happy to kind of connect there as well. Um, but yeah, happy to, happy to hear from you.
Awesome. And I'll put all of that in the show notes so people can just click and connect with you. Thank you so much, Rosanne, for everything. Um, what you're doing is so needed and just so helpful and parents will be so happy to hear that this is a resource that's out there. Awesome. Thanks so much, Rhonda.
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