Episode #63: Healing chronic pain through movement with Daniela Spear
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In today’s episode, Rhonda talks with special guest, Daniela Spear, all about healing chronic pain through movement. Daniela shares her personal experience with Lupus, moving from a “sick” mindset, to healing and coming off her medications, and her passion behind helping others in their autoimmune healing journeys.
Daniela Spear, also known as Coach Dani, is a Restorative Movement Practitioner with a mission to change the conversation on Autoimmune Disease. She was diagnosed with Lupus in High School but has taken an unconventional approach - combining the science behind human performance and psychosomatic practices - to heal 15 years of autoimmune symptoms and is now living her medication free life. Dani now teaches movement and self-body work to help her clients create a more compassionate relationship with their body to heal autoimmune and chronic symptoms.
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LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN EPISODE
Listen to Daniela’s Remade Life Podcast
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Book an appointment with Daniela
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Check out Rhonda’s FREE Resource Library
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Book with Dayna (Rebirth Wellness)
SHOW NOTES:
(0:55) - Introduction to today’s special guest
(1:47) - Could you tell our listeners a little bit more about you and what got you into the movement space?
(7:28) - I would love to hear a little bit more about your journey and story with autoimmune disease, and how you turned your passion into a business
(16:24) - Why are you so passionate about changing the conversation around autoimmune disease and the fear around diagnosis?
(19:47) - What motivated you to go beyond this path of “sick Daniela”? Can you share a little bit about your journey to becoming medication-free?
(26:05) - On the importance of creating a healing environment - and tips on how to do it!
(32:05) - If anyone is listening and would also like to explore a medication-free - and/or healing - journey with autoimmune disease, what would you recommend to them?
(36:38) - In terms of your own recovery and getting off of medication - how was that with your providers? Were they supportive?
(40:40) - What does medication do for Lupus?
(42:34) - What is your biggest take home message that you want our listeners to leave with today?
(44:32) - What advice would you give someone to start improving their relationship with their body?
(47:18) - The importance of slowing down and stillness
(53:18) - How can people find you and work with you Daniela?
(56:43) - How does strength training work into a healing practice for autoimmune disease?
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Episode #63: Healing chronic pain through movement with Daniela Spear
We're excited to have you join us for this episode of Pelvic Health and Fitness. I'm Dayna Morellato, Mom, Orthopedic and Pelvic Health Physiotherapist. And I'm Rhonda Chamberlain, Mom, Orthopedic Physiotherapist and Pre Postnatal Fitness Coach. On this show, we have open and honest conversations about all phases of motherhood, including fertility, pregnancy, birth, postpartum, menopause, and everything in between.
We also provide helpful education and information on fitness, the pelvic floor, and many aspects of women's health, including physical, mental, and emotional wellness. Please remember as you listen to this podcast that this is not meant to treat or diagnose any medical conditions. Please contact your medical provider if you have specific questions or concerns.
Thanks so much for joining us. Grab a cup of coffee. Or wine. And enjoy!
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Pelvic Health and Fitness podcast. Today I am honored to welcome my friend Biela Spear. Daniela Speer, also known as Coach Danny, is a restorative movement practitioner with a mission to change the conversation on autoimmune disease.
She was diagnosed with lupus in high school, but has taken an unconventional approach, combining the science behind human performance and psychosomatic practices To heal 15 years of autoimmune symptoms and is now living her medication free life. Danny now teaches movement and self body work to help her clients create a more compassionate relationship with their body to heal autoimmune and chronic symptoms.
So beautiful. Thanks so much for joining us, coach Danny. Thank you. Thank you Rhonda so much for having me on your podcast. I'm excited today. Yeah, so, you know, we got your bio there, but I would love for you to just share with our listeners a little bit about you, what got you into the movement space and what makes you so passionate about what you do now.
I, um, as you said, I'm restorative movement coach, and that is absolutely a title I gave myself. I've been a strength coach, fitness professional, uh, more recently I've Uh, take in a dive into more of restoring the body's natural ability to heal and piecing that together with strength training and fitness has been the adventure of a lifetime over the last couple of years.
So I got into the fitness space because I was an athlete growing up. I did gymnastics, played soccer. I just was a very active child and. Going into college. I thought I wanted to do physical therapy. So I'm going into school. I did all the pre PT up until I was in physics class. And I was like, I don't think this is for me.
And I sort of redirected and started going more into the fitness personal training space and I had gotten a job at Campus Recreation. I, uh, took a course and became a group fitness instructor and then got my personal training certification. And then a couple of years after I graduated college, I was working, um, I got into the corporate fitness space.
So that was really where I started to grow as a trainer as a coach But the more time that I spent in corporate I was realizing that I was really passionate about working within the autoimmune space. And the story of my autoimmune journey and the story of my career are, you can't really separate the two.
They are just so so connected. When I was in college, I realized that exercise, I was no longer playing sports. And so I just started working out and I started realizing like, this acts like I'm feeling better. This is actually helping me manage. My symptoms, I was diagnosed with lupus in high school and, um, in college, that's when I like realized like, okay, I think exercise is really helpful.
And, but I don't think that I, at the time was like very confident to say like, you know, this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life and teach people with autoimmune diseases, how to implement exercise into their life. And so that's why I was working more in the corporate space. And then once I.
Got a little bit more confident with myself as a coach, as a trainer. Then I started piece, even more information together. So I was learning a lot more about human performance of the company I was working with. And I knew that. The science that was applied to professional athletes. We were applying to the general population and corporate fitness, and I took it a step further.
And I said, can I apply this to a very unique population, the autoimmune population? But at that time I was more so experimenting with myself and applying all of these recovery methods that I. Didn't really have a lot of information. Um, especially like in college, uh, I think like any trainer, um, that is a young trainer, fresh out of school.
Like, you know, we, we enjoy the hard workouts and we are very competitive and, um, especially being an athlete. But I started implementing a lot of these recovery practices that I was learning about. And that is when I started to like, really. Realize like, wait a minute. I think that a lot of the science behind human performance as it applies to athletes can also apply to the autoimmune population and can help regulate hyperactive immune activity.
And, you know, at the time I was like, did I just discover this? Probably not, but no one that I knew was like really talking about it. And so that's when I started talking about it. And that's when I started to like really dive into that space of movement for autoimmune strength training for autoimmune.
And so that is how I arrive in the space of strength training for autoimmune clients or clients that experience. autoimmunity, I should say. Um, and then I have taken that even further now and have started to pull in more of the, the mindset piece, the spiritual piece, the emotional well being piece, and how all of those factors play a role in autoimmunity and how you can implement strength training, but also breath work and restorative practice to help.
Uh, help regulate the immune system so that you can feel great and not live your life kind of tethered by the unexpectedness of autoimmunity. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I love how all your worlds just kind of came together. Such a cool niche, you know, you and I know each other through the movement maestro, um, our business coach, and they always talk about niching down and how that's so important.
I feel like you niche down before niching down was even cool. I don't think I knew I was niching down. My intention was really just experiment with myself. And then I realized like, you know. This is actually really helpful. So I love that it was kind of like a self discovery practice first, and then it, you know, kind of accidentally became really helpful for everyone else I was working with.
That's amazing. And did you have people reaching out to you? So when you were, you know, finding how helpful exercise was for your autoimmune symptoms, did you have people reaching out to you saying, you know, how, like, how can I work with you? Or how can I do what you're doing to feel better? Or how did that kind of come about?
And you know, how did that turn into a business for yourself? Yeah. So my experience and like journey through being a business owner has been really interesting because as you said, like we're, we're told to, to niche down, niche down. And for a long time, I felt like my niche didn't want to exercise. And, um, what I mean by that is that I, I had people reaching out to me, uh, because people wanted to hear my story of You know, how did I implement exercise what I would get a lot of questions around like, what's the best exercise or how do I start exercising?
But what I noticed is that there was not really a lot of follow up or implementation And so it made it really difficult to work within the autoimmune space and I felt like I was a struggling business owner because I had this amazing product that No one wanted or at least that's the way that I felt.
Yeah, right and I realized That the identity piece Actually played a huge role. Yeah in in that and I realized that I was speaking to individuals that identified As their autoimmune disease, right? So it's really interesting because like the autoimmune community you you want to be really helpful, but you also run into individuals that are very much Um, identified by their disease and anything outside of that is really hard and difficult to fathom, right?
So feeling better or even the conversation about healing, it becomes difficult to be able to, you know, express that to people and say, Hey, you know, exercise can be really helpful for you because you when you're first diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, it feels like this is just your life now. And this.
Is your identity and part and part of that is because that's what you're told that, you know, this is chronic. This is forever And so it makes it really difficult to kind of see outside of that Yeah, and so I myself even went through a very transformative experience of releasing this identity as a sick person Yeah, and that has been hit this journey that I've been on over the last couple of years and even transitioning away and being really mindful around the words that I use to talk about autoimmune disease, right?
So I, I try to stay away from saying like, Oh, I'm a lupus warrior, or I'm an autoimmune warrior or chronic illness warrior, because I'm kind of identifying myself as that and I'm affirming that for myself. So I've started to instead say I experienced. autoimmune symptoms, I experienced autoimmune disease, and it kind of like creates that separation, not to like, in a sense, like separate that from myself, because I do, I do experience autoimmune symptoms.
And even today, Living my medication free life, I still experience autoimmune symptoms, but it is, uh, really important for me to not take on that identity as a sick person. And once I became aware of that and I started to change these beliefs about myself that I could feel better, I could heal, I didn't have to be controlled by the uncertainty of autoimmune disease.
Then I started to heal and that sort of was the start of my medication free journey. But to tie it back to your question, it has been a much different journey. Now, speaking to individuals. That are not, I did, I wholly identified by their autoimmune disease, but they are a person first. Yes. And they are a person that experiences autoimmunity.
And for individuals that can take on their own identity as a, as a whole person first, and can see that healing is possible that there is, possibility outside of autoimmune disease. Yeah. Those are the clients that are reaching out to me now. Amazing. Yeah. I think that's so cool and just shows like the evolution that you've come through as an individual that sounds like when you first started your business.
You were sort of getting further along the line of that healing for yourself and of that recognition that I am more than my diagnosis. But it seems like you were attracting people that were still like very early in that phase or not even recognizing that they could get beyond that identifying their as their diagnosis, right?
So I think that, you know, we talk about this with our business coach too, is just like being so clear with our messaging. So that we're making sure we're like bringing in the people that were meant to help. Right. So I think to me, it sounds like that's where you're at now, where you're just getting clear with like who you are and like where you're at, and then attracting those people that are maybe not as far along as you, but at least
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, this has been, uh, the story of me like can reconnecting that mind body connection for myself. Yeah. And that is something that is. Really fun to work with, with individuals that have made that mind body connection and can see the possibility of healing and are excited about healing and are excited about creating this different relationship with their body.
And that is what remade wellness, my business is all about. It's having this second chance, maybe a third or fourth or fifth chance at, at a better, more compassionate relationship with your body, because As much as we want to say that autoimmune disease is like this, like physical thing, it is very much tied to our like psyche, right?
Yes. It's tied to our mindset. It's tied to the beliefs about ourselves. It is tied to the emotional experiences that we have had. Like all of that plays a role in creating the physical experience of autoimmune disease and so, Earlier this year, I actually wrote a book. It's a free ebook that anyone can download.
It's called unlocking your body secrets, a guide to understanding your emotions and healing chronic symptoms. And I talk about the psychosomatic connection and I guide people through how to recreate. that connection, how to make that mind body connection again and start the healing process because fitness strength training movement.
I love it. It's my passion, but the healing starts within first, right? It starts in the spirit. It starts in the mind. And the physical is just that reflection of what you believe. And if you believe that you can heal, you will start to heal. Yes, yes. Speak in my language, Daniela. I'll link that e book for our listeners as well, because that sounds like such a great resource.
And yeah, I just think it's cool now, you know, as you're talking, I'm paralleling it to my world, which is like the postpartum fitness and postpartum recovery world, where I talk to my clients all the time, and I think this is something, you know, we can't fault those clients that do get attached to their diagnosis because.
You know, sort of like the westernized medical system is not into that world of recognizing as much of that like mind body connection, right? So when I talk to my clients who maybe got diagnosed with prolapse, for example, right? That's like a common symptom postpartum and people yes get so attached to that diagnosis of and you know it's all the scary things that you can read online about like I can't lift over 15 pounds and You know, like my organs are gonna fall out of my body.
They just jump to that fear And yes, there's not a lot of guidance and advice out there to take them away from that fear. Right. So I think probably similar in the autoimmune world where there's just so much fear. And I think, you know, you're sort of paving the way and I'm sure others are paving the way to a more positive and a more like optimistic outlook, which some people just aren't ready to hear that.
Right. And I experienced that with clients I've worked with where, you know, I try to encourage them that even with a prolapse. We can still exercise, we can just work in the margins of your symptoms, and there's still so much we can do. And yes, you are not your diagnosis, but some people are just so attached to that diagnosis that the thought of even doing anything is so fearful.
So yeah, I think it just takes time, right? I think just our science and, you know, our world is starting to come around to recognize that. the pain experience is so much more than just our physical body. So I think that's so amazing that you're kind of going into that world for those with autoimmune symptoms because I think that's probably, again, just so common to just be attached to that fear.
I was there too, right? That that was my experience for a very long time. And I, I had all these fears, um, about my life built up around lupus and around autoimmunity. And I, you know, really lived with a lot of anxiety around medical bills and not being able to travel or not being like too far away from my doctor.
And It was all of these barriers that I had put up around myself. And I think that when I recognized that I was living in this. Sick identity, who I call sick Daniela, right? When I refer back to that part of my life, I refer back to like, oh, sick Daniela, like when I recognized that I was making decisions out of fear, I started to have a lot more compassion for myself.
Yeah. And I started to create a safer environment internally for me to be able to envision life. Outside of of autoimmune disease and like just less than a year later, I'm now medication free after 15 years. Yeah. And so I, I have to believe that the, the mindset piece and the beliefs that we take on or not take on or release about autoimmune disease or whatever diagnosis that is, right?
Yep. Has a huge impact on the like physical outcome that we experience. So what was there, was there a day that, you know, all of a sudden you're like, okay, I need to change this, turn this around. Like what, what motivated you to kind of go down this path to letting go of that sort of sick Daniela? How did that happen for you?
Yeah. So early in 2022, I was, um, I was working as an assistant manager at a fitness center, corporate fitness center. And I started to experience burnout and I was just so tired, so exhausted, and I couldn't figure out what it was. But I remember saying, I feel like my bones are tired, like my soul is tired.
And I was just started going down this like really dark rabbit hole with my mental health. And I decided to step away from that job. And just rest. That was my goal was to rest. But even after months of being at home, I still didn't feel rested. And so one morning I just went outside. I had been, um, I had enjoyed like really going outside in the morning to like sit and meditate.
But like this one particular morning, I just went out there and I said, I just started to pray. And I said, you know, what is What is keeping me from moving forward? And in that moment, this like vision of a girl in a hospital bed came to me. And I knew exactly who that was. That was me in high school when I was, um, going through chemotherapy treatments.
And I just felt this sense of like, it's time to let her go. And I just said, like, what, you know, what do you mean, let her go and, um, You know, I kind of felt like this sense of she has served me well up until this point but now it was time to let go of sick daniela and step into my identity as a healer and I Really have this beautiful experience of like, you know of so much gratitude for experiencing lupus and experiencing sick daniela but it was it was like a releasing moment for myself and In that moment, I thought like, this is it.
Like, this is the moment that everything transforms. And I was incredibly mistaken because right after that is when I experienced this, like really, really deep sense of depression and a lot of emotions from my childhood started to come up. And I was like, what, what is going on? And it made sense. A lot of the.
Emotions that had been repressed and manifested as physical symptoms. I was releasing that physical sickness. So now those emotions were coming to the surface for me to deal with them. Truly deal with them. Emotions that I couldn't deal with before because I, I didn't have this, the skill set to do so at the time or kind of the emotional support to do so at the time.
And so now I was dealing with those things. And, you know, one by one, I started to like, unpack all of these things with my therapist and A couple months later, I was able to reduce my medication with my rheumatologist. A few months after that, my liver specialist said, you know, I think we're all good here, like, you can go.
And that was a huge win for me, so I was like, yes, one less, one less doctor's appointment. And I think it was after that that I was like, wait a minute, like, can I get off medication? Like, if I'm healing all of these... You know, emotional wounds that it created the physical symptoms and I'm healing that part.
Can I may we get off medication? And a couple months after that is when I had another appointment with my rheumatologist and I suggested the idea to him and he's like, yeah, go for it. And at first I was a little like taken aback by how casual he was about it. But, you know, he's always known that I've been in the fitness and health and wellness space.
I think he trusted me. And he said, sure, you can come off of it right now. And I kind of took a step back and said, Oh, I think I'll just like taper off for the next couple of months. And I kind of made my own little tapering schedule. And, um, as of July of this year, I've been a hundred percent medication free.
Wow. And so was that. Transformation pretty quick for you in terms of recognizing that you had these deep seated like traumas essentially that you hadn't worked through starting to work through those. Was the decrease in symptoms, like, pretty, like, correlated? Did you notice that shift happening pretty quickly?
Yes and no. So, I think what made a lot of this possible, I don't want to give anyone the wrong idea that if you just, like, decide to let go of your autoimmune disease identity today, like, tomorrow you're going to be better, but this has been, you know, a process over Many years, and I think like, I think maybe it was like 2016 when I started to get a play around with like, well, how does nutrition influence, you know, my symptoms and then maybe those are like 2018 2019 I started to pay more attention to How does like this high intensity, these high intensity workouts influence symptoms.
And I started to transition a bit more to, uh, progressive strength training, implementing more recovery work after that, it was learning more about the breath work and the meditation, um, you know, foam rolling, getting better sleep. And then I started implementing better hydration habits. And so it's been like this slow process of first learning to.
manage symptoms and reduce autoimmune flare ups. So that was always my goal was just like, if I can just have as little autoimmune flare ups as possible, then like I don't have to live my life, you know, tied to this. But then the emotional piece came into it, right. And so it was always like peeling back all these layers.
Yeah. And I think that all of that was a part of the process, an important part of the process. And Yeah, I think for for anyone that might be wondering like, well, where do I start? I think just start anywhere start and if becoming more aware of what are any lifestyle practices or habits or things that are Contributing to autoimmune symptoms start to like notice like what increases autoimmune symptoms how can I change something to just simply decrease the number of autoimmune flare ups or even just decrease the intensity.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And you start to create evidence that, Hey, this is possible. I do have control. I do have some influence over my immune system by, you know, taking care of all these other areas. Yeah. And, and I think that is a great place to start because that's where I started. It was just starting to become more aware of like the influence that I had over autoimmunity in my body.
Yeah, it's just giving people that like confidence that Yeah, there's so many things in this world with our health that are out of our control. I talk about that a lot of times with birth, right? We can go into birth with like the perfect birth plan and have it laminated. And, you know, we can control certain things, but there's so much out of our control.
And I think, you know, pain is. Pain, you know, anytime we talk about pain or work with clients with pain, it's so beyond complex, right? I think even the, the top of the top pain scientists probably still are just scratching the surface of like what, but I think, yeah, I think, you know, that myself as a physiotherapist, I feel like that is, as I've, you know, continued working and evolving, just recognizing that pain is so multifaceted, right?
So I think that was such great advice that just. There's so many things that can influence you to feel better, whether that's autoimmune, whether that's postpartum symptoms, whether that's like pain in general, that, yeah, just pick something, right? Like pick your focus on your sleep, prioritize sleep, right?
Or prioritize mobility, like start just stretching more, right? Whatever that might be. And just notice, right? Get curious. Like, Hmm, how did that make me feel? Right. And just start, like you said, peeling back the layers. I think that's such great advice. Yeah, I think it's so important to like even recognize that autoimmunity and pain are outputs from the body, right?
I think a lot of times people want to look at like either pain or autoimmunity is like the cause to why they feel the way they feel, but it's important to switch that and recognize that they are outputs, right? And both of those are parallel in the way that. One is like a common approach is to try to address the pain or try to address the immune system, but the reality is that those, both of those things are very highly influenced by everything else being inputted.
So with autoimmunity, I think there's room for improvement in the way that we approach autoimmunity. Put it out there. There's room for improvement, right? Because I think the current approach is like, let's target the immune system. But what happens is that we're not addressing All of the other systems of the body that influence the like, why, why is the immune system feeling like attacked or whatever, right?
Why does it feel the need to attack your body? Right? The current like narrative around that is. This, it just happens. It's genetics. It's not really anything you can do about it. It's just the way it is. It just, we don't know why it happens. It just happens, right? At least that was the narrative that was told to me.
Yep. And to a lot of people that I've worked with as well. But what we don't recognize is that your nervous system has a huge influence on the immune system. A hyperactive nervous system, you're going to create a hyperactive immune system. a lymphatic system that is overloaded with toxins and is stagnant from lack of movement, lack of breath, you're going to create high levels of inflammation in the body, right?
Hyperactive inflammation, hyperactive immune system, even the breath, right? Shortness, like short breathing patterns creates hyperventilation, creates chemical imbalances in the body, creates anxiety in the body, high stress levels. High functioning immune system, right? Like hyperactive immune system. So we have to start to pay attention to that.
Like autoimmunity is not like the cause to why you feel the way you do. It is a result of all these other systems creating the sort of like perfect storm in your body to create autoimmunity. But if you can start to create safety for your nervous system, We start to move our bodies. Give our lymphatic system some love, hydrate, move, start to pay attention to our breath, slow our breath down, slow our lives down, your immune system is going to regulate.
Yeah, and I think it's important to note, so you know, you touched on the fact that there could be a genetic component, right? I think that, yeah. Yes, you know, similar to how you were saying people can get sort of attached to the diagnosis, they can probably get attached to like why they have it, right? Yeah.
And so, yeah, so I think again, just talking to people about like, there's so many things out of your control. Yes, maybe genetically you're predisposed. However, yes, there are still many other factors that we can impact. So maybe. You know people listening might say like, oh like daniela's amazing, but I could never get there Maybe you might have to continue to be on medication but maybe you can still influence your symptoms a little bit right to even just to like lessen your medication or just Experience a more joyful life, even if you are medicated, right?
Like that's okay. Yeah, right. There's like spectrum of Conditions where you know, like everyone experiences symptoms differently and everyone can experience healing differently too, right? There's no like perfect way to heal either, right? No, there's no perfect formula. And, and you're right that there is a genetic component to it.
I think that the genetic component though, is more so your tendency to have an autoimmune response, right? Okay. But like you said, the That doesn't mean that you cannot do anything about it. You can still, right, there's, was it like epigenetics, like the study of how they influence your, your genes? Like there, there's a whole field around this that I don't have a lot of information on other than what I've experienced in my own body, right?
But you can influence the way that those genes respond. Right. And that is... Incorporating better lifestyle practices and also just like having that awareness like we talked about earlier of creating the evidence that you can heal and it's just it's starting with that one thing it's starting with a little thing and Sorry, I, like, was losing track of what I was saying, but okay, I remember you said the medication.
Yes, you do not have to get off of medication to heal, right? You don't have to be off of medication to heal. Like you said, healing happens differently for everyone. And for me, that started while I was on medication. And I think it is important to note that, like, We, you don't have to be either like fully Western medicine or fully Eastern medicine, like you can be somewhere in the middle.
And I think both are really important. And that's where I started. Like medication helped me to tame and decrease my symptoms enough for me to have the headspace to start to pay attention to other things that I could change in my life. Right. Yeah. And over time, those practices. Started to help me feel better and started to create less of a need for medication and so I started to decrease the dosage and then eventually I came off of medication, but that doesn't have to be everyone's story, right?
Yeah, but I think everyone's story can have that story of healing while on medication healing through medication. And I will say that even off medication, I still experience autoimmune symptoms. They don't, I don't know if they'll go away forever. Yeah. And the way that I understand symptoms now is like, it's a different perspective that they are patterns of protection.
They are communication from my body. So I don't know if I would ever really want them to go away. I wouldn't want my body to become silent. Yeah. And those symptoms are reminders. Slow down, like, okay, you've had a really heavy week with work, like, let's have some rest this weekend, like, alright, you, you know, you've been eating a lot of inflammatory foods, like, let's change it up a little bit, let's incorporate some more anti inflammatory foods.
Daniela, have you been hydrating? No, not great, like, okay, it's a reminder, like, let me refocus on hydration, right? And so those symptoms to me. Are are really helpful. I love that. Yeah, I talk about that on the podcast all the time Symptoms are our body's way of talking to us. It's not necessarily something we have to be afraid of and it seems like that's where you've come to at in your journey that Symptom.
It's almost like, thank you. Symptoms. Thank you. Symptoms for me. Thank you body. Like, yeah. Thank you body for like waking me up to realize like, okay, have I been doing these things? Can I sort of tweak a couple of things to feel even better? I love that so much. So I would love to hear just from you in terms of like your own recovery, getting off of medication, how, how did that go?
Like with your providers, like, was everyone supportive and was everyone. Sort of like surprised by your recovery or like, how did that look curious about that? So when I asked my rheumatologist, I said, you know, I honestly was just kind of taking like shooting my shot there, right? Like I Wasn't sure what he was gonna say.
And I said, what do you think about the possibility of getting off medication? And he said, yeah, just Go for it. And I had already been dismissed from my liver specialist. So I was only seeing my rheumatologist. And so he was he I mean, he was incredibly supportive, I think, more supportive than I was of myself, because I was a little, little nervous, little cautious around, like, what is this journey going to look like?
And I remember that like as soon as I left the doctor's appointment, I immediately called my mom and I I told her that the doctor said I could get off medication and like interestingly enough. It was like almost like 15 years to like the exact date when like I was initially diagnosed with with lupus but 2008 I think that was and so it was just like really like really cool to see how that timeline aligned and my mom and I cried together on the phone because like she she was the one that had like gone with me to all my chemotherapy treatments like she would stay in the hospital with me and it's just I mean anyone with Who experiences autoimmune disease like, you know, it's not just you that experience it is like It's a family thing.
It's it's a community thing. It's the friends and family it Impacts everyone around you and so it was just a really really cool moment to like get to like share that with my mom And kind of like see all this come full circle of like, everything that I had experimented with, um, the incredibly hard year that I went through in 2022 with my mental health, like, this moment just sort of like made everything really worth it.
Like it, it was worth the taking the time to like pay attention and pay attention to myself. And like, you know, even the times of like, being like, really dismissed in like certain like autoimmune Facebook groups or getting a lot of like backlash or you know comments around that my content or things that I was sharing was like offensive or um, hurtful to those with chronic illness like.
In that moment, I just felt like, I felt like, you know, say whatever you want to say, like, I have this evidence for myself, and it was really, really cool to experience that, and the last couple of months, like the last six months of taking three months to taper, and then three months being off medication at this point, has been a process of getting to know my body all over again, all over again from the beginning, because now it is this medication free body that is a lot more sensitive to stress.
It's a lot more sensitive to, uh, like food, inflammatory foods, food triggers. And it's a lot more sensitive to just everything around me. And so it's almost like I experienced things in a heightened way. And it's relearning that process of coming back to myself, grounding myself, being aware what things influenced, uh, waking up with achy joints, what things influenced, like being really fatigued.
And it's, it's a different, it's a different game than when I was on medication and my body is just like, we were very used to this thing for 15 years and medication free body is a much different experience than being on medication. Yeah, it's like a whole new learning world. So, I personally don't know a lot about lupus and just what does the medication like what did chemotherapy do and what does medication do for lupus.
So there are a lot of different treatments to lupus, uh, the treatment approach that I had gone through was because after I was diagnosed with lupus, I was also diagnosed with lupus nephritis, so I had kidney involvement, kidney disease. And so the chemotherapy was more to suppress the immune system from attacking my kidneys from attacking my body.
Um, and I think I was supposed to do like six to eight rounds of chemotherapy, but I actually ended up only doing four before switching to the oral form of that medication. And then I be, I'd also was taking prednisone, which was a steroid. Um, I think like anyone who's like, Is either how like an injury or some kind of inflammatory response in the body, you know, you're given front of zone for like two weeks, maybe at most, um, I had been, I think I took prednisone for like almost nine years, um, before, like I said, like, I think I came off of prednisone in 2017.
Yes. And then I was on Plaquenil, which is a very common treatment approach for lupus, which is more of an immune modulator. So it just modifies the immune system to, to not attack your body. Right. Okay. So yeah, you can see how going off those medications, your body has to kind of figure itself out a little bit again.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing all of that, Danielle. I love to hear your story and just how far you've come in your journey and in your healing and your business. Um, so if, if those that are listening, whether they are dealing with autoimmune or symptoms in general, you know, maybe want to get away from medication, maybe just want to feel better.
What would be sort of like your biggest take home? I know this whole talk, we touched on a lot of different things. What's like the, the biggest piece of take home advice you would say? That's a great question. And I love this question because I think it always surprises people. I get a lot of questions around like, what do I need to do?
And people want like a very, uh, like a tactile approach, like very practical thing. Um, but I, you know, if there's ever anything that I can recommend to anyone experiencing autoimmunity is to. Start to develop a relationship with your body and our relationship. requires spending time with yourself, checking in with how you speak to yourself, how you communicate with yourself, how do you interact with yourself, what are the beliefs you hold about yourself.
And a great place to start is the question, I love this question, what is my current relationship with my body? And It's okay if that relationship doesn't look very great right now or doesn't feel very great right now. Mine didn't start off that, you know, didn't start off great either. It was, it was recognizing, it was taking that question into consideration and recognizing that my relationship with my body was one of self criticism, of dismissiveness, of neglect.
And. It helped me just become aware of like, okay, how can I start to change this? So developing a relationship with your body is the best place to start. I love that. And to piggyback off of that, what would you say if someone says, okay, I have not a great relationship with my body. I guess every journey is different, but what would be your best sort of advice to start improving their relationship with their body?
I would say be willing to sit with the uncomfortableness. All right, taking time to be still can be very difficult for some people, and it's very uncomfortable, but I think allowing yourself to experience discomfort. Is really transformative because, you know, the, the advice that I don't love is just like, manage stress, just, just manage stress or like reduce stress is like, is that real?
Is that realistic? Right? Because sometimes the things that cause you stress are the things that you love, like your family, like your kids.
You can't necessarily just get rid of and actually learn this approach from one of my mentors, Anna Hartman, Movement Rev. I know that she's also in very much in our space and, um, or I guess in the space that we are all a part of. Um, but it was. It's such a transformative perspective on stress because we always have this goal to like reduce stress, get rid of stress, manage stress, and we always want tips on how to manage stress.
But can we learn to create safety and stillness, calmness in the presence of stress. And so that for someone that doesn't have that currently doesn't have a great relationship with their body, I would say. Learn to sit, sit with that, like learn to be still with that discomfort. And I think once you get past that, like that self criticism, you start to kind of develop some self compassion when you start to sit with like those judgmental thoughts and you, you allow yourself to.
Metaphorically, or maybe literally look in the mirror, you start to have more compassion for yourself, you start to have more compassion for your body, and you start to, you know, consider that, like, you know, it makes sense that my body responds the way it responds. And in changing that relationship with yourself, that your, your body's response to you starts to change as well.
So beautiful. And just thinking back to your story, Daniela, that I forgot to mention it at the time when you said it, but it fits so perfectly now when you, you know, left your job, that was stressful. You had sort of that moment of prayer where it was, you know, tell me what I need to do. That was probably the first time.
And it was that like in your whole life that you actually had stillness in your life where you like, you weren't working, you were forcing yourself to to me, that makes so much sense that finally you had clarity. Because your body could, your body was screaming at you for years, but you weren't listening, right?
And finally you could listen and your brain, you know, your mind was able to finally like tell you what was going on to me. That's just like such a beautiful moment in your journey. Yeah. Rhonda, thank you so much for, for noticing that. I think that that's very true. Um, I have certainly have tried to, you know, practice meditation.
For a long time, but yes, like in, in the physical sense, that was really the first time in my life that I was resting. I, through my twenties, I, I early in my career, I said yes to a lot. And this was the first time really that I had said nothing else matters except my mental health. And I. I took a pause. I took a big pause and I think that that too, you're right.
That was important in being able to have that clarity of, um, even being ready, I think, to like hear that, right? Because I think if I was still in, in this rushed mindset, this rushed lifestyle, I don't think I would have been ready to hear like. It's time to let sick Daniela go and it's time to embrace your identity as a healer because I think I wouldn't have made the time to make that transition like I was, I was able to at that time.
Yeah. Yeah. Such a great part of your story. And I think, you know, those of us listening can probably take so much from that, the importance of that stillness, like you said, right. And the importance of slowing down. And I think what is tough is we live in a world, and this is, you know, probably why we don't manage pain for our society well, is a lot of us Don't have the ability to slow down or some of that, you know, some of that again, like we said, there's certain things in our control, but there is still things within our control.
But yeah, we live in a world that is so fast paced, you know, we have to pay the bills. We have to go to work. Right. But I think still within that, there's still pockets of time that we can that slowness. Right. Right. Yeah. There are still opportunities even. With your kids, there's still opportunities with family.
There's still opportunity within the pile of bills to take a breath. And it can be something as simple as that. I think we often overlook the really, like really easy, obvious, like way too simple to be effective. Like, no, those are the things that are most effective and it's. Learning to be present in that.
Like certainly plays a role in the way that we experience pain in the way that we experience our bodies and we can start to change that by like really seeking those opportunities of stillness, even if it's a breath in that moment. Yeah, yeah, we talk about that on the podcast all the time. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, right?
It doesn't have to be this big, you know, transformative practice that you suddenly fit into your life, right? It's, yeah, just being aware, doing a deep breath, and sometimes that is all it takes to feel better. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I know that like the, my story, like is like this huge transformation over the last year.
Right. But it definitely didn't start like that. And because I was already implementing like little things, it's the reason that I'm able to continue that transformation today. Right. And it is, and just like everyone else, like I have to check in with myself, I have to remind myself, yeah. This doesn't have to be complicated.
Like it can be really simple. Like one of the best things for me that has been huge in managing joint pain and inflammation while being off medication is literally just like getting into bed. Earlier. I was not even like sleeping more, right? Sleep can be a whole separate conversation, but it's just like.
Creating that time in that like environment for sleep. And it's just getting into bed and even just like putting my phone away. Where it's not right there. And even for a while, like I wouldn't even take like a book into that. I was just like, I'm going to be still, and I'm going to create this environment for sleep.
Right. And that's been huge for me. And it was, I mean, it was hard at first, but like just getting into bed, like 10, 15 minutes earlier. Transformative and you don't have to like fall asleep right away, but you can just like lay and relax and. That's huge. That's something I did. I don't even know how long ago now, cause it's been a long time, but I charged my phone in like our en suite bathroom, so yeah, because that would be my habit is many of us haven't had that habit or have that habit of just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling for no apparent reason other than it numbs our brain, right?
And so, yeah, having my phone plugged in, even if I'm like watching a show or even if I'm reading a book, like at least I'm rest more restful than the constant stimulation of. social media or whatever it is we're looking at, right? Yeah, absolutely. Makes a difference. Yeah. So great, Daniela. So if folks are listening and they're like, wow, Daniela is really cool.
And she, you know, I think she could really help me. Uh, can you tell our listeners about, you know, how do you work with people in the autoimmune community and how can you help people feel better? Yeah, so I offer restorative bodywork sessions, and they are both virtual, um, or in person to those that are local to me.
Where are you? I am in Durham, North Carolina. Okay, cool. I don't think I ever knew where you were. I'm in North Carolina, yeah. Cool. So yes, they're virtual or in person if you are local and what we do is I take my clients through a movement assessment to identify where the body is holding tension and this works.
So well for autoimmune for people experience autoimmune disease, because while we're not directly addressing the immune system, we're addressing all the other symptoms that directly influence the immune system. And if we can start to pinpoint, where is the body holding tension? If we take a step back and allow the body to tell us where it's holding tension and where it's creating patterns of protection.
We start to address those with movement, with breath work, with some nervous system resets, some lymphatic work. We start to kind of pull, you know, start to pull all of these things out of like your, what I call the threat bucket or your, your, your tension bucket, right? We start to release some of that tension from the body and then the Body can have some space to create a little bit more regulation and that influences the immune system.
So um, these are one on one sessions and I love them because there's not this ongoing like commitment you are in charge of your health you are in charge of your body and How you want to approach your your health care plan? And so they are um As as needed, right? They are you schedule those as needed.
And I love that because it kind of puts the empowerment back into the client's hands. And it is a practice in clients having developing trust or recreating that trust with their bodies and and like learning to check in with themselves and say, Do I need some extra support right now? Is this something that I can take care of?
On my own with some extra hydration with some of the skill sets that coach Danny has. Taught me right, right. So it's wonderful to like be able to work with clients that you know start to Take control because like ultimately like the goal is for clients to not be Fully dependent on me. I want my clients to feel empowered to Go out, live their lives, and I only hear from them when they, like, really need support.
That's so cool. So yeah, you kind of go over all of those different layers like we talked about, and yeah, they just sort of do their thing, see how they feel, then they can just check in with you as needed type thing. Yeah, yeah, and usually For the, for the most part, when clients first start working with me, we'll, we'll have some more regular sessions in the beginning, and then we'll start to space out those sessions.
Well, do you still do like strength training with your clients then too? Yes. So that is a part of it. That is a huge part of it. So strength training, I use it from the approach of teaching. Or helping to train the nervous system, the immune system, how to experience a certain level of stress, and then how to downregulate and build resiliency.
Well, yeah, so we incorporate strength training into our sessions as a way to help increase resiliency in the body and help kind of. Build that resiliency against stress as well. Amazing. I love that. And how can people connect with you online? So I am on Instagram. I'm going to couple of different places online now, and I'm really excited about it.
I'm on Instagram, uh, at Daniela dot spear. I spend way too much time on there. So please feel free to send me a DM. Um, if you have any questions or, you know, if you think that restorative body work sessions would be helpful. And starting your own autoimmune healing journey. Like, um, send me a message, reach out to me.
I'd love to connect. Uh, I also just started a podcast, so I also launched my own podcast. Um, it's called the remade life. Podcast, and it is all about taking a different perspective on autoimmune disease. A lot of the things we talked about today, um, are kind of the driving themes of this podcast and it launches October 1st.
Yeah, so I'm very excited about that as a new platform. I'm also on YouTube. So you can find me at Daniela Speer on YouTube. And then I also have a newsletter. It's the weekly remade journal, which you can find the links to all of those things from the link in my Instagram bio. Perfect. And I'll put those all in the show notes too.
So people can easily click there and find all of those resources. Thank you so much, Daniela, for sharing your story, sharing your passion and helping people realize that they can feel so much better with autoimmune disease. Yeah, Rhonda, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure to share my story.
So thank you for allowing me the space and time to do so. And it's been a great conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to today's podcast. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. If you liked what you heard, we would love if you could share this with a friend, leave us a review, or subscribe to anywhere that you listen to your podcast.
Thanks for being here.
